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Turkey Hunting?

Started by Brian_Bailey, October 02, 2002, 07:18:46 PM

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Brian_Bailey

   I'd like to take an informal survey.  

   With fall turkey season about 2 weeks away here in W.NY. I've been having quite a debate with the local folks about using a dog to hunt turkeys with.  

    Everybody that I"ve talked to says that they have never of heard of it.  NY State allows the use of a dog for the fall season only.  

   What I would like to find out is,  is the use of dogs for turkey hunting common in your area and if it is what kind of dog would be used?

    I realize that this question should be placed on a hunting forum, but, I would value the replies of the members this forum more.

    If you care to reply, I would appreciate knowing what area you're from and any opinions you have about using a dog for this purpose.  Thanks,  Brian...
WMLT40HDG35, Nyle L-150 DH Kiln, now all I need is some logs and someone to do the work :)

Tom

Brian,
I've never heard of hunting turkey with dogs.  The biggest thing about turkey hunting is stealth.  You have to be still, and quiet. It helps to be able to "call" and lots of hunters are into a lot of camo.  When Granddad taught me, he sat me down at the base of a cypress tree in a hammock and said "Don't Breathe".

A Turkey might look like a dumb bird but he's pretty smart and one out-of-the-way sound will have him ducking his head and high-tailing it out of there.  They are fast runners too.  He'll be there one minute and all of a sudden be gone.

No Dogs.

KiwiCharlie

G'day Brian,

We have dogs here that are trained to retrieve ducks, once you have shot them 'on the wing'.
Never heard of dogs for turkeys.
Now hunting wild pigs with dogs - that I know about!  Adrenalin plus!
Cheers
Charlie.
Walk tall and carry a big Stihl.

Tom

For those who don't know,  Hammock:  a fertile area in the southern U.S. and especially Florida that is usually higher than its surroundings and that is characterized by hardwood vegetation and deep humus-rich soil  *also Hummock  ;D

Bro. Noble

Missouri has a fall turky season but only a fraction of hunters compared to the spring season.
In the spring, calls and stealth are used.
In the fall, the turkys are scattered off of their roost and then shot as they try to get back together.
I don't see a role for a dog in either case and have never heard of anyone using one.

Noble
milking and logging and sawing and milking

KiwiCharlie

G'day Tom,

Aww, you spoiled my minds picture of you lying there in your 'hammock' ((A hanging, easily swung length of canvas or heavy netting suspended between two trees or other supports and used as a seat or bed.)), listening to your Granddads wisdom!  ;) :D ::)
Cheers
Charlie.
Walk tall and carry a big Stihl.

Jeff

I have seen dogs used in turkey hunting here  in Michigan. Michigan Outdoors ran a segment a couple years or so ago.

The dogs, if I remember were labs. The way it works is that the dogs are only used to find the flock of turkeys and flush them. At this point you just let them go. You then leash the dog, camo him and you and sit down. The dog is kept quiet and still. You need a pretty well trained dog.

Turkeys have the habit of always returning to the point of flush to regroup the flock. You sit and wait until the turkeys return then try to get a shot at the appropriate bird.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Tom

KC, I like your picture.  Maybe I'll try that one day. :D  That would be the "Southern Way" :D :D

I remember hearing about that now that you mention it Jeff.  Don't know where though.   I think I would rather find the turkey's roost and go back the next day and get me one when he/she got out of it to feed.  Granddad used # 8's in a 12 guage and made head shots at about 20 or 30 feet..

Texas Ranger

We hunt turkey twice a year in Texas, I usually bag one ButterBall per holiday.  The dog gets the left overs.
The Ranger, home of Texas Forestry

CHARLIE

SE Minnesota reintroduced the turkey to this area in 1972 with some wild turkeys from Pennslyvania. They took hold and we now have quite a population of turkey here. I've never seen or heard of anyone here hunting turkey with a dog. Here, they use a lot of camo, find a place to sit and are very still and quiet. This is the first time I've ever heard of anyone using a dog for turkey hunting.  

I really don't believe that camo is necessary as long as a person is very still. Camo might help disguise or hide movement, but I believe it is movement that scares away turkey and ducks.

My granddaddy once sat me down at the base of a palm tree (down in Florida) and said, don't move a muscle 'cause those turkey can even hear your eyeballs squeek. I got my first turkey that day.  
Charlie
"Everybody was gone when I arrived but I decided to stick around until I could figure out why I was there !"

ADfields

KiwiCharlie
Do you hunt hogs down ther?   Do you ever talk on the Boar Dogs Forum?   I have been a hunting dog breeder (Catahoulas) for 20 years so I know a ton of hog dog people!
Andy

Just about all boys from down under.
http://ccdog.com/Boardogs/

Brian_Bailey

     Thanks for the replies so far.  I just want to say that my request for info. is not because I have nothing better to do!  I'm collecting this info.for a very important project that I'm involved in :P .  I need this info. from as many people and locations as possible.

     Jeff,  Thank you for describing the method of using the dog and the breed. Did you see the dogs actually being used to flush out the turkeys?  If so,  What was your impression of the event?

      Thanks,  Brian...  
WMLT40HDG35, Nyle L-150 DH Kiln, now all I need is some logs and someone to do the work :)

Jeff

Well, it looked like the dog was having fun. It wasnt anything other then the dog charging the flock and getting it to go up quick. I think the advantage of a dog is just that. A human walking might just push the turkeys on the ground where as the dog covers a lot of ground and gets them in the air.

I don't even think the dogs were smelling out the turkeys, they just simply cover more ground.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

woodman

In the town i live in you can not use a dog or a gun for hunting  just you and a bow and arrow.
Jim Cripanuk

Brian_Bailey

Well, I like to eat turkey too.  I'm not a turkey hunter so I have to bag my butterball turkeys at the local store like most everyone else   :).

Jeff,  

Hunting turkeys with dogs in my area is unheard of.  To quote the local gun - hunting store owner and turkey hunter,  " It just is not done around here, never of heard of it."   Anyways,  several days ago I witnessed  a dog flushing out about 25 to 30 turkeys in some heavy brush.  It was not a pretty sight.  The owner of the dog was training it to hunt turkeys. I'm not against hunting, but.... .      
WMLT40HDG35, Nyle L-150 DH Kiln, now all I need is some logs and someone to do the work :)

Jeff

The segment I saw was not horrific. It simply showed the dog charging in and the turkeys going up. The dog didnt touch a turkey, and I am not sure he tried. It was more of a merry thing. "Dute-da-dute-da-dute I'ma goona chase me some turkeys" with a full tail wag.  :)

It sounds like a difference in training to me. Kinda like one guy teaching his dog to bark at a disturbance, while the other guy teaches his dog to bite.

Our Australion Shepherd, I am convinced, would give his life for us, yet if he finds a mouse in the yard he will follow it around and herd it, and let it go when he is bored.

I think whether hunting turkeys with dogs is good or bad falls on the individual hunter. Some guys are just slobs no matter what they do. Cant blame it on the dog.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Tom

Dogs tend to do what they are trained to do to please their master.  I don't think Turkey hunting would benefit by sending a dog after them but I could be wrong.  

Is it the manner in which the Dogs treated the turkeys that bothers you?  Were the Dogs actually being used as the weapon?  I can see how that could annoy a sportsman minded individual but, by the same token, I can understand the sport. (not that I would partake.)

Have you ever seen what happens to Catch Dogs in a Hog Hunt?  You probably wouldn't like that either.  The sport of Falconry can be pretty graphic as well.  

Then there is the Dog-in-the-henhouse concept which leads to the demise of a lot of dogs.

If the sport of hunting turkey turns out to be like a dog-in-the-henhouse then I'm sure that it won't last long.


Brian_Bailey

Yeah, I'm all for hunting.  Although I no longer hunt, I encourage folks to hunt my land esp. for deer.  

It's just that I have never seen a dog used to flush turkeys.  I suppose if the turkeys where in a more open area such as a field or a thinned out woods when the dog flushed them I would feel differently.  25 to 30 turkeys trying to take flight in heavy brush with a dog aggressively pursuing them was definately not a pleasant sight. Dog in the henhouse describes it clearly except for the killing. I can't imagine how anyone can consider this sporting. I'm just curious on how common this type of turkey hunting is.
WMLT40HDG35, Nyle L-150 DH Kiln, now all I need is some logs and someone to do the work :)

KiwiCharlie

G'day Andy,

I dont have pig dogs, just go out sometimes with a few mates when they go.  Mostly hold/bail stuff, till you get there with your knife.
Its quite popular here, lots of wild areas to hunt in.
Did more as a youngster than I do these days.
Cheers
Charlie.
Walk tall and carry a big Stihl.

Ron Scott

Dogs may be used in Michigan for turkey hunting as Jeff stated, but during the fall to locate and break up flocks.

This months issue of the Michigan Out-Of-Doors magazine has an article on fall turkey hunting. Page 40 has a picture of a turkey hunter with a "bagged" turkey over his shoulder with the caption " In the fall, Michigan turkey hunters may use dogs to locate and break up flocks for call-back".

The dog appears to maybe be a german shorthair.

I'm sure that the ardent and experienced turkey hunters that I know would frown on this method however.
~Ron

crosscut

sheesh we have so many turkeys around here i have to train my dogs not to flush them  :-*i have to blow the horn sometimes to shoo em off my sawmill

dail_h

Not that many turkeys here in N.C.,although I have seen them roosting on a log loader in the morning.Some guys used to use bird dogs to hunt here,similar to quail hunting.They could wipe out a whole flock pretty quick.Dont know if anyone uses now or  not.
World Champion Wildcat Sorter,1999 2002 2004 2005
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Tom

We had a thread on that a little while back with some pretty good responses.  The general consensus was that it didn't seem to be the Sporting thing to do.

Brian_Bailey

There are a couple of guys trying to establish turkey hunting with dogs in my area.  They seem to be in the minority as the real turkey hunters aren't too keen on using dogs for this purpose. They refer to it as a lazy man's way of getting a bird.  
WMLT40HDG35, Nyle L-150 DH Kiln, now all I need is some logs and someone to do the work :)

ADfields

Well it sounds like thay never tryed to train a dog to do a job.   That takes a hole lot more work than hatching a turkey and feeding the thing up to size!   A guy needs to work with a dog neer every day year round for it to be worth haveing around when hunting.   I have a LOT of respct for dog trainers, it dont just hapen on it's own!
Andy

Brian_Bailey

Andy - Your right, it takes a lot of work to train a dog for what-ever purpose you might have for it.  

Here in NY you can only hunting turkeys with a dog in the fall. Your bag limit for the fall season is 1 turkey.  This year the state made an exception and allowed 2 birds of either sex to be taken because of the increased number of turkeys.

To spend all that time training a dog to bag maybe 2 birds a year seems to most people that I've talked to a waste of time.

But like they say," different strokes for different folks."
WMLT40HDG35, Nyle L-150 DH Kiln, now all I need is some logs and someone to do the work :)

Bro. Noble

Andy and Brian,

In the past few years there are two guys that were on our milk route that quit milking and went to training and trading dogs full time.  They say they make about the same income as when they milked.  Of course there is another guy who quit milking and plays pitch pretty much full time.  He claims the same thing :D.

Noble
milking and logging and sawing and milking

Tom

Well they can train their dog to hunt turkey if they want but they aren't welcome on my property to do it.  I would take to it about the same as a chicken farmer with a dog in the hen  house.  

My unerstanding of the "sport" is that they turn the dogs loose to charge a flock of turkeys, not to hunt and point like dogs on qail.

Minnesota_boy

They can come hunt turkeys on my land.  Of course iI've only seen one wild turkey here in 50 years, but that just adds to the challenge.
I eat a high-fiber diet.  Lots of sawdust!

Brian_Bailey

We have several issues involved concerning using dogs in my area.

1) The traditional turkey hunter objects to using dogs because he has spent considerable time in locating and learning the habits of a particular flock or flocks of turkeys that he wishes to hunt. He knows where they roost and their feeding range is. When it comes time to actually hunt, He has a pretty good idea where he wants to be to bag the prize bird.

Now along comes the dog hunter, driving around looking for a good spot to let his dog do his foot-work.  He stops his truck, gets out and lets his dog loose.  If there are any turkeys in the nearby woods, brush or field, the dog flushes the flock and returns to the dog handler and is put back in its cage. The dog hunter smiles and grab his hunting gear. He then goes to where the dog had just flushed out the turkeys and starts calling the birds back.  Never mind the traditional hunter, who had just spent most of the morning calling the birds in-in the first place.  

2) Trespass - It seems that some of the dog hunters are using their dogs to drive game off of posted property against the wishes of the landowners.

It's too bad because a lot of the landowners don't object to hunting their property as long as you ask first.  It only takes a few to ruin it for the rest.    
WMLT40HDG35, Nyle L-150 DH Kiln, now all I need is some logs and someone to do the work :)

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