Help building hunt camp!1

[monte]

HI Guys!

Wow am I happy to find this site,cause I sure could need some help!
This is my storie; I purchased 80 acres of vacant land and I'm planning(or trying to) build a log home hunt camp. I'm picking up my brand new sawmill on wednesday.(Can't wait!!! ;D) Without flooding you guys with questions I'll start slowly with the questions,cause I do have alot.

First of all, I'll be harvesting the wood on the property and it will be constructed with green timber(jack pine). I'll attach a picture of what I'm thinking of building, my question is what type of construction is that called?what size do you think the timber is and what do you think the dimensions of the building is? ???

I'm also looking for sujestions regarding the size of timber,I would not have access to heavy machinery, everything by hand. is it possible to do this with 8x8 or should I stick with 6x6.

As you could already tell I have no experience in construction, but I am excited into trying and giving my best shot! :P

Thanks

[Don P]

That is called "butt and pass" or "notch and pass". Notch and pass doesn't take much longer and is a much better lock. 

The downside of that corner type is all those exposed flat surfaces on the corners. The building in your picture has real small overhangs coupled with tall walls. Those corners are going to get wetted more frequently than is good for them. 
A wall like that with wraparound porches or at least larger overhangs  would work.

[monte]

Yes I agree don!

I believe they made them that way so they can transport them on the highway. but yes I will definately over hang them more.

Can you sujest a size of the camp and size of lumber to use?

[monte]

The other issue I was comming up with is: If i got a long span to build up the wall, lets say 24 feet and I need to but two pieces together end for end, what kind of joint do I make and how do I make it?  :-\The big problem here is that I'm using green timber,so I'm sure as it dries it will shrink and I don't want a big crack in the wall  :D

[HARLEYRIDER]

do yourself a favor, and attend a log home building school. I went to http://www.logbuildingschool.net/  in ontario. he has 1,4 or 10 week courses. I took the 4 week course this past fall, and learned a great wealth of knowledge.

he teaches hand scribed log building with saddlenotch corners. build with green wood, and the saddle notch gets tighter as it drys. everything is done with a chain saw, and a tractor.

pm me if you want to know more.

[monte]

I wish I could harley rider, but I work during the day, next to impossible to take time off. :(

But maybee in the future!

Thanks

[srjones]

Hi Monte, welcome to the board,

:-\The big problem here is that I'm using green timber,so I'm sure as it dries it will shrink and I don't want a big crack in the wall

The good news is that wood shrinks in width and depth, but not in length.  You could use some sort of spline or a more traditional scarf joint used in timberframing.

Whereabouts in Canada are you?

[monte]

Hi Monte, welcome to the board,

The good news is that wood shrinks in width and depth, but not in length.  You could use some sort of spline or a more traditional scarf joint used in timberframing.

Whereabouts in Canada are you?

I'm from Sudbury,Ontario ;D
Do you have any simple methods of a scarf joint or spline?I could really use some advise :-\

[srjones]

I'm also looking for sujestions regarding the size of timber,I would not have access to heavy machinery, everything by hand. is it possible to do this with 8x8 or should I stick with 6x6.

I assume you're not doing this solo, right?  Anyway, speaking from experience I can handle a 6x6x16' by myself, a  8x8x16' is quite managable with two guys, and a 10x10x20' is the most that I can lift with a helper without hurting myself (dropping on my feet or rupturing a disk)

I'm guessing you'll want to go as wide as you can for the extra insulation value.  If it was me, I'd go for the 8x8s.

[srjones]

I'm from Sudbury,Ontario

Hey, it looks like you're in the area of dem der yoopers, but nort of da border. :D  There's a bunch of guys on this board that can probably give you better advice than I can (specifically concerning issues of weather, climate, cold, etc.)

Do you have any simple methods of a scarf joint or spline?I could really use some advise

There's probaby some good books out there on log home building, so I wouldn't want to suggest anything specific for what you're doing.  However, for an idea about scarf joints, see this thread.

https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=15437.0

It sounds like you've got an exciting project!  8)

[Hoop]

I see a problem with the pictured building.  Inadequate overhang.   Rain backsplash CAN rot out the bottom couple of courses of logs.  Historically, this is the #1 reason why log homes rot away.

I don't see a problem with the joint that you describe.  There is nothing wrong with butting 2 logs next to each other and holding them in place with a polebarn nail.  You had better figure on caulking (chinking) the entire building.

In a northern climate, I wouldn't consider using logs that are less than 8" from side to side.  Logs have an R-value of perhaps 1 - 1.33 per inch of log. 

Have you considered building your log cabin using the vertical log building method?  I happen to think it is the most owner/builder friendly method of log construction.  The logistics of lifting 6' or 8' length logs are FAR FAR easier than lifting BIG logs.
No special building skills are required.

Please use the forum gallery for photos (admin)    Is a photo of my vertical garage being built.  Notice the 2 courses of block that the vertical logs rest on.  This prevents rain backsplash from destroying the logs.
Please use the forum gallery for photos (admin) shows the finished product   The basic vertical log structure is a very simple design & process.

Settling isn't a problem. 

For something like a hunting cabin, I'm convinced the simplicity of the vertical log method is the only way to go.

[Max sawdust]

Hoop,
Can't get the links to open.  Interested in seeing the vertical style.  Some OLD cabins on Trout Lake are built with that style, and are holding up well.
max

[crtreedude]

Interesting thread guys and it is exactly what I am thinking of doing so if no one minds, I will jump into the thread.

We have a surplus of tops of teak trees in our areas - I am serious considering using some for a few cabins in our plantations. Nothing really big, perhaps a sleeping area and bathroom - must have a porch for a hammock!

I have been doing some reading and the vertical logs approach looks really interesting.  Does anyone know where I could find plans for one?

The teak tops are usually between 4 to 7 inches in diameter - we don't need any insulation so I am thinking that will be thick enough.

What's your thoughts?

Oh, I could open the links either - it said permission denied.

[bitternut]

Both links opened for me.

Hoop.........Are the ends of the logs keyed into a plate and a header or is there nailers on the inside that tie the logs together? Seems like there would be a whole lot of shrinkage between the logs. How are these chinked?

[Fla._Deadheader]

Links are forbidden for me too  : :

[monte]

Initially I could'nt open the link too, but just hit refresh and it will come up!

Vertical!!! very interesting! I'm a little confused about the ceiling joists, A picture of the inside would really help!

[monte]

going back to the horizontal butt and pass, would you guys fasten each layer of timber (screws,lag bolts,nails or even cedar dowels) or leave the weight of the building hold it together.

I'm not changing subject,still interested in vertical construction!

[crtreedude]

Perhaps mystery solved  if you use foxfire - they don't open, but if I use IE they open fine.

[Fla._Deadheader]

Not on this Spanish Computer???

[Max sawdust]

Thanks CR,
That did it ;D I copied the link to IE and opened it from there.
Nice looking structure
Max
Fla,
Try cutting and pasting the link to IE in a new window.  IE inside the forum did not work for me either.

[Tom]

Everybody could see those pictures real quick if they were on the Forum Gallery.

[Fla._Deadheader]

Worked like a champ. Thanks, Max  8)

[Don P]

That looks  8) Hoop. I saw a nice one while searching on piece en piece construction too. Large standing logs tapered on each end to fit into a horizontal half log grooved to accept them.
(another term I've seen PnP called; piece sur piece).

going back to the horizontal butt and pass, would you guys fasten each layer of timber (screws,lag bolts,nails or even cedar dowels) or leave the weight of the building hold it together.

I've usually used 3/8" lags, with hardened washers in predrilled and counterbored pilot holes, to attach each log to the one below. We usually put these 24-36" on center, doubling up wherever it looks like it needs it. Oly screws work ok but have very little draw to suck things down tight, they take less labor but cost about the same.

Through bolting is usually done with lengths of 5/8-3/4 allthread. They can be coupled together in shorter sections as you go up. A large washer and nut top and bottom with acess to one end will allow you to tighten them later. Some people put a 1000 pound spring on the rod buried in the top log in the hopes that it will provide sufficient force to keep things tight. Throughbolts are usually placed at each side of windows and doors and corners. Blank walls usually don't go more than about 8' max between rods.

Handscribed typically is through bolted but many have no fasteners, same for the old Appalachian styled chinked homes I've worked on although those usually had bucks nailed or pegged into the log ends (this can cause settlement problems). No fasteners often results in the top plate rolling outward though.

Spikes, rebar and iron pipe have been used too, they have no draw to pull a bowed log down and usually just hang things up, but I've seen them work well too.

The midwall butt joint is often drilled with a 1" bit, pumped with caulk and a peg driven in. It is also often plywood splined with a piece of 3/4 ply slid into a vertical groove in the end of each log. It can also have a vertical tongue and groove joint that slides together. I saw one guy dovetail them together.

As long as I'm being a RPITA-KIA  : ;D;
One thing to think about when stacking green timbers flat on flat is that wood shrinks almost twice as much tangentially as radially . I've tried to draw 3 pictures of a slabbed log. The first is an end view of the log fresh off the mill. The middle shot is a year or 2 later, it shows how the sides have shrunk more than the center radial section. That winds up with gaps inside and out with the log bearing on the thicker middles. The third pic shows one way to help counter that. A power planer run along the bottom center removes some of that and throws the bearing back to the outer edges. A swedish cope does basically the same thing. The black line is showing where the check will most likely form. It usually forms on the shortest (weakest) path from heart to edge. You can help it form by plowing a groove (further weakening that area) with a skilsaw down the center of the bottom.

[Norwiscutter]

I assume you're not doing this solo, right? Anyway, speaking from experience I can handle a 6x6x16' by myself, a 8x8x16' is quite managable with two guys, and a 10x10x20' is the most that I can lift with a helper without hurting myself (dropping on my feet or rupturing a disk)

Either that 10x10x20 is at 2% moisture content or you and your buddy are 6'8" 350 lbs.
I wouldn't suggest trying to lift much over a 12' 8x8 with the help of strong buddy, considering the dangers of having big heavy things over ones head.

I have built a number of houses using this methodololgy andhave been very happy with the results. We have used 8x8's, 10x10's, and 12x12's. In fact we are finishing up the log walls on a 24x34 log cabin tomarrow. (12x12 D-log) I have never had problems with the oly log hog screws and is my method of choice. I do predrill the holes and figure 1 screw per running foot on the larger logs, 1 per every 18 inches for the 8x8 and smaller.  I don't really think of the screws as being expensive when put into perspective with the rest of the project.  I also like to glue the logs with a good bead of PL400 or liquid nails, which serves one- to hold the logs together, and two- as a temporary sealant until you chink the out side and caulk the interior.  I dont fret to much over the butts as I know they are getting sealed on both the inside and out. I somtimes will router a 45 on butting logs to give myself a good spot for my caulk bead. the bottom logs should be through bolted.  I like to build these type of places on an 18 or 24 inch knee wall which facilitates easy electrical chases and the raising of the solid logs out of the major drip area.(only when doing construction on grade) 

Tools you will absolutely need:
-Good heavy duty draw shave
-spoke shave
-makita 3 1/4 inch power plane ( the bigger ones are nicer if you have the money but this one  will work fine)
- beam cutter, large skill saw, or a  chainsaw with a good eye and steady hand ;)
-normal construction/carpentry tools.
- I am sure I am missing some but some of the other guys will help me out I am sure.

Bad log homes are normally the result of poor design, not poor materials.  Understand that wood cannot magically withstand the eliments just because it has a coat of stain on it.

-2 foot overhang- bare minimum for off grade, not acceptable on grade.

-3 foot overhang- good for off grade, minimum for logs on grade

-4 foot overhang- now were talking

[srjones]

Either that 10x10x20 is at 2% moisture content or you and your buddy are 6'8" 350 lbs.
I wouldn't suggest trying to lift much over a 12' 8x8 with the help of strong buddy, considering the dangers of having big heavy things over ones head. Shocked

   I wouldn't dream of lifting those over my head   :D  I was just talking about picking them up from the stack and putting them on a cart.  Right now they're at about 14% MC.  I'm still wishing I would've got a tractor with loader forks...