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Need Some Expert Advice

Started by Radar67, December 16, 2005, 09:00:44 PM

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Radar67

Ran into a little trouble today with my saw, a Poulan Pro Classic 18 inch, 42cc engine. The two screws that hold the muffler to the exhaust port kept backing out, under max throttle while cutting. Any recommendations on how to solve this problem? Is there any type of Loctite product that works well under high heat conditions? The saw runs fine and is perfect for the amount I use it. (Not a daily, bread and butter saw) Thanks for any information you can share.

Stew
"A man's time is the most valuable gift he can give another." TOM

If he can cling to his Blackberry, I can cling to my guns... Me

This will kill you, that will kill you, heck...life will kill you, but you got to live it!

"The man who can comprehend the why, can create the how." SFC J

Kevin


Radar67

Kevin, now I feel really dumb!  :D :D :D Didn't even cross my mind.
"A man's time is the most valuable gift he can give another." TOM

If he can cling to his Blackberry, I can cling to my guns... Me

This will kill you, that will kill you, heck...life will kill you, but you got to live it!

"The man who can comprehend the why, can create the how." SFC J

Cut4fun

Open that muffler up and richen up the H side on the carb. You will not think its the same saw. Poulan comes way to lean from the factory. Like a 1/2 on H side, when they run best about 1 1/8-1 1/4 turn out on H side. I run 4 poulans as a homeowner and even took out the metal baffle in the middle of the mufflers  and I still havent had the bolts back out like you stated. Hope I am just getting lucky. But I didnt even think of lock washer either. DUH here too.

Minnesota_boy

I have a saw that will back those screws out even with lock washers, so I removed them, drilled a small hole in the head of each and put them back in and locked them with a piece of wire run through the holes.  It takes longer but it will eventually break the wire and back the screws out anyway.  ::) ::) :(
I eat a high-fiber diet.  Lots of sawdust!

chet

I have used the high heat loctite #246 or #266 with good results. Just have some heat ready when you need to disasemble.  :) 
Apply the tread locker to the bolt (not into the hole) as it will eventually shorten the hole depth.
I am a true TREE HUGGER, if I didnt I would fall out!  chet the RETIRED arborist

Kevin

Quoteas it will eventually shorten the hole depth.

How did you discover that?  ;D

Kevin

Another way to lock bolt heads that are hex head is to join the bolt heads with a small piece of metal  and bend the ends up to lock the heads in place.


chet

I am a true TREE HUGGER, if I didnt I would fall out!  chet the RETIRED arborist

Radar67

Quote from: Cut4fun on December 17, 2005, 07:40:45 AM
Open that muffler up and richen up the H side on the carb. Like a 1/2 on H side, when they run best about 1 1/8-1 1/4 turn out on H side.

Cut4fun, This is my first saw, so could you explain more about the H side of the carb and opening the muffler up?

Minnesota Boy and Kevin, the screws are reccessed into the muffler, I like your ideas though. I'll have to keep them in mind for future reference.  ;)

Chet, I'm going to try the lock washers first, if they still back out, I'll add the loctite.

Stew
"A man's time is the most valuable gift he can give another." TOM

If he can cling to his Blackberry, I can cling to my guns... Me

This will kill you, that will kill you, heck...life will kill you, but you got to live it!

"The man who can comprehend the why, can create the how." SFC J

Kevin

You can always replace the screws with bolts.

Cut4fun


Cut4fun

Need model number of saw so I can look up your muffler. Being silver I bet it is one of those epa catalytic converter types.  None of mine had the epa restricted mufflers. Scottr has alot of info on retuning these saws and helped me out on my first top end rebuild this year. PM him also for more info just tell him I sent you.

Radar67

Quote from: Cut4fun on December 17, 2005, 05:43:39 PM
Need model number of saw so I can look up your muffler. Being silver I bet it is one of those epa catalytic converter types.  None of mine had the epa restricted mufflers. Scottr has alot of info on retuning these saws and helped me out on my first top end rebuild this year. PM him also for more info just tell him I sent you.

Thanks for the link and the info. My saw's Model number is PP4218AV. It does have the EPA muffler on it.

Stew
"A man's time is the most valuable gift he can give another." TOM

If he can cling to his Blackberry, I can cling to my guns... Me

This will kill you, that will kill you, heck...life will kill you, but you got to live it!

"The man who can comprehend the why, can create the how." SFC J

Medina

Had same problem with a 380 Pro, used split washers/spring washes/lock washers but you gotta remember that the heat takes the spring out of them and you will need to check them every once and a while, changed mine out every couple of months to be safe.

Metal clip would work with standard head bolts, mine came with round head torx bolts, maybe need to change.

Cut4fun

Be careful not to burn your new saw up. Poulan has them so lean from the factory, it is just a matter of time. The 220 I got sounded like it would rpm  to the stars at WOT. So I pulled the limiter caps off the H side and L side. red and blue plastic caps to keep us from adjusting carb. I took needle nose pliers and pulled them straight out and off. Then I checked H setting by turning it back in to see the factory setting. It only took a 1/2 turn to seat it to the right. Do this lightly on seating. I then put caps back on and you can only get a max of 3/4 turn of adjust with caps on from factory settings. To me this will just burn your saws up running this lean. The rpm sounds like it will never end. So I pulled the caps back off and adjusted the H side till it 4 stroked a little.  About 1 1/4 to 1 1/8 turns out. Then turn so ever slow off the 4 stroking till it clears up. Now the saw should be running richer and keep you from burning up your new saw. I didnt have to mess with the L side(throttle response) or Idle screw. I dont no anyway to open up a epa muffler crimped together I think, but other have drilled holes in the front and replaced them with NON epa mufflers of the earlier years. They stated even though the drilled holes the epa mufflers still retain to much of the heat in. I would try and find a non epa muffler somewhere that fits your saw to get the heat out. Sort of like running a header system on a car.  GL

Radar67

Thanks Cut4fun, After reading the tuning link you sent, I was wondering about burning the saw up. I'll have to do some tinkering and see what I can do. I'll also check around for an older muffler. I've got a saw shop close by that might be able to get one.

Stew
"A man's time is the most valuable gift he can give another." TOM

If he can cling to his Blackberry, I can cling to my guns... Me

This will kill you, that will kill you, heck...life will kill you, but you got to live it!

"The man who can comprehend the why, can create the how." SFC J

IMERC


Thread Locker blue and star style lockwashers (internal / external design). That style of lockwasher digs in and holds a lot better than the split type. Change the screws to washer head tap bolts while yur at it. Hedge yur bets.
Who ever invented work didn't know how to fish.... Here fishy fishy....

rebocardo

> Is there any type of Loctite product that works well under high heat conditions?

Red lock-tite, though removing a small fastener would be quite the project.

IMERC

Quote from: rebocardo on December 19, 2005, 01:54:49 AM
> Is there any type of Loctite product that works well under high heat conditions?

Red lock-tite, though removing a small fastener would be quite the project.


Grey would work even better but everything would become monolithic. Drilling and tapping a new hole is the only way to go back.
Who ever invented work didn't know how to fish.... Here fishy fishy....

scottr

Quote from: Radar67 on December 18, 2005, 11:48:53 AM
Thanks Cut4fun, After reading the tuning link you sent, I was wondering about burning the saw up. I'll have to do some tinkering and see what I can do. I'll also check around for an older muffler. I've got a saw shop close by that might be able to get one.

Stew
Stew , it's been about 16 months and I wonder how your PP4218AV is holding up . Now that you have more run time have any different problems surfaced ?

Radar67

Scottr, the saw is still running great. I used the loctite product to keep the exhaust bolts in, but still have to tighten them up about once a month. I didn't make any carb adjustments because the saw was still under warranty, but I did learn it ran better at 3/4 trigger. Now that the warranty is out, I'm going to do the muffler mod and get rid of the limiter caps. I have noticed no other problems with my saw, other than having to change chains when I wear them out.

Stew
"A man's time is the most valuable gift he can give another." TOM

If he can cling to his Blackberry, I can cling to my guns... Me

This will kill you, that will kill you, heck...life will kill you, but you got to live it!

"The man who can comprehend the why, can create the how." SFC J

scottr

Quote from: Radar67 on April 27, 2007, 11:43:41 AM
Scottr, the saw is still running great. I used the loctite product to keep the exhaust bolts in, but still have to tighten them up about once a month. I didn't make any carb adjustments because the saw was still under warranty, but I did learn it ran better at 3/4 trigger. Now that the warranty is out, I'm going to do the muffler mod and get rid of the limiter caps. I have noticed no other problems with my saw, other than having to change chains when I wear them out.

Stew
/quote]                                                                                                                                  Stew , does your saw cut better at 3/4 throttle or does the engine not run properly at wide open throttle ?

Radar67

It cuts better at 3/4 throttle. If I give it everything it has, the blade heats up and dulls a lot faster, not to mention the motor sounds like it will blow at any moment...extremely high pitch rpm sound.

Stew
"A man's time is the most valuable gift he can give another." TOM

If he can cling to his Blackberry, I can cling to my guns... Me

This will kill you, that will kill you, heck...life will kill you, but you got to live it!

"The man who can comprehend the why, can create the how." SFC J

scottr

Quote from: Radar67 on April 27, 2007, 02:55:42 PM
It cuts better at 3/4 throttle. If I give it everything it has, the blade heats up and dulls a lot faster, not to mention the motor sounds like it will blow at any moment...extremely high pitch rpm sound.

Stew
Stew , this past winter I was cutting dry dogwood that was similar . I did not have the file low enough in the gullet (not enough hook) and it was like the tooth was not getting a good bite . Sometimes a real tight chain will be similar (remember no sag no drag on the tension) . Are you dropping the depth gauges lower than the .025" when the tooth gets some wear ?           Does your saw have the super clean feature that sends fresh  air from the fan back to the air filter ?

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