Building inspector!

[brdmkr]

I went by to speak to the building inspector to talk about plans for my shop.  I have been having some difficulties with communication with the inspector.   I went by today with some home-drawn plans and met the OTHER inspector.  This guy was great.  The topic of sawing your own lumber came up (don't know how  ;D).  He told me as long as I was pulling my own permits I could use rough-cut 8).  Of course, I am going to still buy my framing lumber as it will be much easier and the savings won't be that great.  It is just good to know that I won't have any problems with future construction. 

He also looked at my plans and explained exactly what he needed to issue a permit.  I just about have everything together for him.  Looks like I'll be getting a permit soon!

[Tom]

Funny how you can have one that doesn't speak the same language as you do, or is against all you want to do, and then you run into one, now and again, that is accommodating and actually acts like a real person who is working for you instead of you working for him.    Whew!   that was a mouthful.

And they are all supposed to be reading out of the same book too.  Personalities and egos are the biggest detriment to the success of a public servant.

[DanG]

Good deal, Mike! 8)  Now all ya gotta do is build according to those plans, and schedule the inspections when the first guy is on vacation. ;D :D :D

My interactions with our B.I. department has been all positive so far.  Of course, I haven't dug a hole or driven a nail, yet. :  We're gettin' closer, though.  I took the plans back to the "engineer" the other day, since he had presented a shamefully inadequate foundation plan.  Should have'em back by the first of the week.

[brdmkr]

Dan

You still planning on breaking ground on the first?

[maple flats]

It seems to me to be a farce to get more $ from you. The lumber I cut and use is by far better than those big box store dimensional scrace that are sold as construction grade but in my comunity the lumber must have a grade stamp to be accepted. I did get a run around from my inspector for a while until I did some research online. I found out that rough cut is accepted if the sawyer signs a form that all the lumber is #2 or better. There seems to be no training required for the sawyer to sign this, and guess who my sawyer is? Hint- he goes by the name maple flats and signed the form in a heartbeat. After the inspector saw the work in progress he lost all of his reservations for the use of rough cut in my case. That stuff from the DEPOT etc usually belongs in the fire pile for kindling. If you look at a lot of the construction grade stamped stuff it has major bark or loose knots in key locations or they sawed one too many boards from each side of a log and always looks like they must do it with a scragg mill from real small logs. I've seen some 2 x 4's that had bark on 2 opposite edges and the growth rings also showed the heartwood. Now how small must a log be to get that? And it was stamped so therefor good to use to hold up something important, I burn much better stuf than that and never take such a small log to start with because the grain is too young and weak at that stage. OK, I'll get down off my soapbox now.

[beenthere]

maple flats
What you say is true, but just keep in mind that the junk you speak of at the box store most likely does indeed meet the grading rules behind the stamp that it has on it. A logs better grade material, like that you are producing, is creamed off long before it reaches a 'box store' as a product, so you don't see it there.
The stuff that doesn't meet the grading criteria is chipped, in all likelihood.


It's great to hear that your better construction material is going to pass the inspectors inspection.  But the next guy who wants to saw his own and then include the limit of bark allowed, and the max. knot size allowed, etc. and who doesn't have a stamp from an agency, probably won't get by the inspector.

Just my thoughts.

[Onthesauk]

When we built our house, the contractor said that less then 3% of the county population is involved in the permitting process each year.  And all they really want to do is get in one end and out the other.  He suggested that if everyone in the county had to go through it at the same time the process would get fixed just because of that many people all mad at the same time.

[UNCLEBUCK]

No building inspectors in my location yet , shoreland management(sewer inspector) is in full force and tough. Electrical inspector is the nicest man one could meet.

[solodan]

Many of the houses near me were built without permits 30-40 years ago. Even if you did get the permits, the county did not have inspectors go into the field. Lots of people building things they should not have been building. Maybe this is why things have got so strict around here. I got a notice in the mail last month, to stop all constuction on a rental property that I own. I was in violation of not securing a permit to demolish a failing deck. I tore the deck down because it was in bad shape, and my tenenants called my insurace company and complained. They said the deck was unsafe. well I immediatey went over and boarded up the exits to the deck, gave my ex- tenants a 60-day notice, and removed the deck. I was not going to take any chances and wait for a permit to be issued, to remove a deck that had been built 40 years ago without a permit anyways. So I had to pay for the permits and a small fine, but it cost me $240. We'll see what happens when I submit my plans for a new deck with my lumber. :-\ Maybe I'll be making one of those stamps that's been  talked about here ???

[UNCLEBUCK]

I forgot that a building permit is needed in my area and all that means is a pencil drawing and a brief description along with 70$ sent to the town hall on the first saturday of each month . 70$ permit is good for a building with a value up to 70,000$ . Permit must be visible and placed in a location that can be seen on or near the building site . Thats too bad that had to happen solodan but I bet you felt better giving the 60 day notice

[solodan]

Yeah, I did.  But I also think that they or their out of work neighbor called the county on me, as our county enforces nothing without someone complaining. It did give me an excuse to get in there and put some $ and work into the place. I am confident I can find some decent renters if I make the place nice.

[maple flats]

Solodan, you are right, I have rentals and do keep them looking good. I get good rents and rarely have anyone move out. When something needs fixing it happens fast and tenants like that. Whenever I do have someone move out I put an ad in the local paper for 3 days, set up appointments for 1 day spaced out every 15 minutes, hand all those who want it an application and make my choice within 24 hrs. I have not had an unscheduled vacancy in over 35 years of doing it this way. My rents are not at the very top end of the scale for our area but are near it and I make it up by never having a vacancy. The longest I ever had if I wasn't going in to do a renovation like a new kitchen or bathroom is 2 1/5 weeks when a tenant died and therefor had no notice ahead.

[mike_van]

Maple Flats, I know where you are coming from with the inspectors, un-graded lumber, etc -  Where you and I, and probably most everyone else on this board would use good sound  ungraded lumber, there are many out there that wouldn't. Hackers, fly-by-nights, scammers, whatever you call them, just prey on people that have no clue - As I see it, the building inspectors protect these people from low class, shoddy construction.  We [the good builders] get caught up in these inspections too,  even though we would never put floor joists 3-4' OC or use 2x4's for rafters.  Here in Ct. new construction & major renovations get so many inspections, from footings to roof, it's mind boggling, but it protects those that don't know.  Necessary "evil"  I guess -  :                                                     Allmost forgot one - Years back there was a "builder" around here that would use the outside basement wall as the back of the septic tank - only had to lay up 3 walls for the tank that way - Imagine finding that out after you bought your dream house?????

[Engineer]

A few of the towns around here have building inspectors, my town doesn't.  As long as I pay the permit fee and give them a nice crayon sketch on a paper napkin, I can build whatever I want.   ;D   If it's a DIY job, no plumbing or electrical license is needed, GC's don't need a license, and nobody comes around and checks to see what you made. 

[Modat22]

I've met 100's of building inspectors and electrical inspectors, it never hurts trying to get to know the guy. Buy the guy a cup of coffee and yak with them a bit.

This will actually allow you to understand the way the guy thinks. Some inspectors want to have a total control feel over what goes up and interpreters the code in its strictest sense, Others after learning what kind of guy you are will lean toward allowing you to have most of the control.

Just my two cents.

[sawguy21]

I am somewhat surprised at some of the stuff I am reading here. Don't  the insurance underwriters lean on the municipal and state governments or is insurance not an issue for some of you? Banks are kinda strict here about it.

[OneWithWood]

Just finished with the electrical inspector on the barn I am building.  Real nice guy and helpful but definately 'by the book'.  Our ordinances have a clause that states that owner built owner occupied structures are not subject to inspection.  The only catch is that REMC will not hook up power without the meter base displaying the electrical inspector's green tag.  So now I got the required tag. 
The overriding reason for the permiting process and ongoing inspections here has more to do with getting structures on the assessment roles for property taxes than anything else. :

[Don P]

Glad to hear you're off on the right foot brdmkr. We have a couple of cases like that around here. A good inspector is a real help, I feel comfortable talking to them and getting their input.
For typical stick framing I'm inclined to agree on the cost benefit of sawing your own. I run into the rough cut issue mostly on heavier construction areas like porches or exposed beam floors when the wood is exposed and store bought stuff just wouldn't look right. I like to see the possibility open to anyone though.
I do think anyone using wood structurally should have some basic training. Kind of amazing to me that we don't teach that at every tech school at least once every couple of years.
Carpenters pretty much grade at the cutting bench no matter what the stamp says though. Every stick in the pile doesn't have to be on grade. I just try to see that every stick in the finished product is up to my grade  .
The permit for our house some years ago was $20. The one for the house I'm working on now was over $1000. It can't be about money  .

[solodan]

Maple Flats, I appreciate the input about rentals. I think the problem in my area is that 90% of the of the people that live in my county either make $150k a year or $15k a year. Well that really limits who you can find as renters. The good part is that the real estate prices have been increasing so fast, it doesn't really matter if you rent them out or not. Currently, people are buying homes and just sitting on them for a year or two and then they turn around and sell it, for double their money.
This is also the reason that they have become so strict with the building department here. Fly by night contractors from all over were flocking here. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure out that if you build a $300k house and then sell it for $600k,  you made a little profit. Well I know guys that do this 2 or 3 times a year and they ain't starving. I also think that the tighter restrictions has got rid of some of the hacks, but for someone like myself who can saw their own lumber for my own properties, well we get caught in the middle of it all.

[DanG]

I guess the permitting costs here are a bit spendy.  I paid $350 for the septic tank permit.  That doesn't seem out of line, since they sent a guy out to do the soil tests, then sent them off to be analyzed.  I've also paid several small fees to various County offices, including the Tax Collector and the Property Appraiser.  The building permit itself will be $1200, payable when we get the permit.  This includes all the inspection trips, and they offer "courtesy inspections" to clear up questions as they arise, and before I screw something up.

Of course, it remains to be seen, but I figger if I show the guy a full cut, clear 4x12x24' timber, he'll let me use it instead of scabbing some store-bought 2x12s together. ;)

[bull]

We have a new building inspector, seems to be a pretty good guy !!!   The retired building inspector is training him. Old Norm Grew up working in his family sawmill... We are very lucky he really knows his lumber and is a big supporter of rough sawn and supports green wood construction... He is also a college educated structural engineer etc...  We will keep Norm around for as long a possible, the new kids is good w/ the laws and the politics and Norm is the common sense man........  We had a short 3 year stint w/ a guy named Nick who was lost in his computer and any time there was a complaint he would issues a Cease and Desist Order and sit on it for ever.He did about 1 in 15 permit inspections and when he left they pulled Norm back in to clean up the mess before the New kid took the job..... Took 6 months to clean up Nicks Messes some things had to be fixed or rebuilt after Norm went around to complete all the inspectons.... 

[Norwiscutter]

The inspectors up here seam to be pretty reasonable as long as you aren't directly violating UBC. New a guy who mananged to get his stuff passed by calling and asking before everything he did. I mean, this guy called the inspector three to four times a day while he was building his house.  The inspector finally told him that he seamed to be doing a pretty good job on his own and not to worry about it passing unless something major was wrong. ;D

[Furby]

The overriding reason for the permiting process and ongoing inspections here has more to do with getting structures on the assessment roles for property taxes than anything else. :

That is VERY true!
They even took it one step further here just recently.
They now require a "zoning permit" for ANY building or structure that would not normally need a building permit.
Of course there is a fee. :
Now before a farmer can build a barn, a city folk can put up an 8'x10' garden shed (neither of these normally need a building permit) they must drive a half hour across counties to submit for a zoning permit.

[Tom]

That's kinda like Wal-Mart charging you $5 dollars at the door to allow you to enter and give them  money for merchandise.

[Fla._Deadheader]

Costco, Sam's Club, Tom. That's eggzackly how they do it. Call it '' Discount'' shopping.  : :