Is this guy for real?

[ButtonRock]

  Im new to logging and just had my land appraised by a forester two months ago. He said for $1000 he would mark my boundaries and the trees to be cut with future cuttings in mind. He would send out the appraisal to 30 timber companies to see what they would pay. He estimated I would be payed 150-160 a thousand after his percentage, after the loggers cost and after the cost for trucking. If cordwood was to be considered he would get $5 per cord. He also stated the end result would be 10-15 thousand in my pocket when all is said and done. We have 50 acres of hardwood mostly black oaks with some red ,white as well as some soft maple and hichory. The acreage has never been logged in at least 120 yrs that we know of. We looked at a typical black oak 3 ft dbh that the forester esimated to be worth about $400. He never mentioned the word veneer but continued to say "you have some big ones here". I asked what it would look like when all was done. He gave me an address and I checked it out. It looked like a bomb went off. I could not believe it. In my haste I went out and bought an old skidder thinking of doing it myself. I have no intention of doing it overnight but I just can't see turning my property into a nightmare. After reading some posts it seems I have an awful amount of homework to do before I start cutting . Is this logging? I have talked with several of the landowners in the area and all regret having their land logged. I am beginning to feel like I am getting over my head. After talking with the forester it seemed to me that everybody was going to make money except for myself, the landowner. I want to perserve what we have as well as thin some sections for trails, whitetail feedlots etc. I have no intention of making a killing but just don't want to get ripped. Any advice would be welcome.TIA

[Frank_Pender]

The first things that come to my mind is your statement about have a great deal of homework to do.  Yes you do!  I am not familiar at all with the logging styles etc., of the East, South or Northeast, but whatI am familiar with is the potential of loss or gain for land owners when logging is complete.  I always ask land owners to become as knowledgeable as possible before any sort of operation begin.  And it is an operation, often from stem to stem.   Do your homework it is the best thing you can do for you land, self and family.  I raise, primarely Douglas Fir timber.  Some of my trees as worth up to and excess of $2,000 each , for utility poles.  Often loggers and buyers do not tell you this and theyare harvested for such a purpose without your knowledge or reciept of the dollars they are actually worth.  Like the "big ones" you have could very well be worth two or three times the quoted value, for peeling.  Just like some Fir are worth up to two or three hundred dollars more per thousand, for export.  Do your homework!  Have other potential foresteres check you site out and see what they have to say.  Talk is cheep.   A few hours walking around your acerage is a good investment and increase you knowledge level as well as shoot your learning curve up in a hurry.  The bes of fortune in your learning curve and getting you homework assignments done.  As a teacher for 30 years I only accepted one basice excuse for not getting the work completed, a death in the family, namely theirs. :P :P :P

[OneWithWood]

ButtonRock,
The first thing I would do is contact your state district forester and put together a management plan for your vision of what you want the property to be.
I am in the middle of my third harvest on 100 acres in the past 21 years.  If you have a plan and you work closely with the forester and loggers the damage can be minimized and the woods actually improved.  I cannot over emphasize the importance of goals and a plan.  As with any process the appearance of the product has a lot to do with the point in the process one is viewing it.  During a harvest and immediately after the woods does look as if a bomb went off in some areas.  A little cleanup work will go a long way to healing the visual impact.  In a few years you will be amazed at the recovery.

[Texas Ranger]

I would be more curious as to the nature of the "forester", sounds like a logger who is a forestry consultant rather than a consulting forester.

[Tillaway]

It seems like you talked more to a log buyer than forester.  You need to find someone local that will work for you.  Sounds like he had these logs sold without advertising a  timber sale.  You need to develope a mangement plan.  Determine your goals for your land before talking to a forester private or government.  Basically what are your priorities?  Wildlife, Recreation, Income, Asthetics?  Decide in order from what I have listed and break each one down: example   Wildlife, fish birds, big game or small game.  Big game deer or bear or whatever.  Answer increase or maintain deer habitat.

If income is your main concern then how much do you want, when, and how long.

List those four priorities as well as any others you can think  of  in order.  Each one will have trade offs so favoring one will usually take something form the other.

Good luck on your homework assignment.  :D

[Ron Wenrich]

This deal really smells bad, to me.  I'm not marking much timber, at present, but typically, consultants don't work like that.

If they are working on a percentage, there should be no money for marking lines or trees.  That is what the percentage is supposed to cover.  The consultant doesn't get paid until the timber is sold, and money changes hands.

I haven't seen your timber, so prices don't mean that much.  But, the prices you quote are for low to medium grade oak.  Stumpage in my area (PA) is easily in the $400-500 area for oak.  15% is the going percentage and the logger pays for the trucking and the logging.  You do the math.  I even think the 15% to be too high.

If you want an idea of tree value, click on the red toolbox on the sidebar.  Go to tree value calculator.  Here you can put in a tree species, diameter, and height ($ of 16' logs) and 1 Common lumber prices to come up with an approximate tree value.  I wouldn't sell timber using this guide, but it can give you an idea of values.  Right now, red oak 1 Common is about $700.  This does not include veneer value.

Another thing to consider is that timber markets are a little weak.  Demand is not what it has been and veneer buyers are a little more picky.  You may be able to get better prices when the lumber markets pick up.  Right now, no one is building inventories.

Aesthetics are going to be tough if your stand consists mainly of large trees.  You will get gaping holes in the overstory.  That's good if you want to encourage undergrowth.  If not, you want to keep your residual basal area up.  Look in the Knowledge Base under forestry.  There is an article on point sampling.  It may be of interest.

Learning to log in big, high value wood is not recommended.  Leave that up to the pros.  You can ruin quite a bit of timber by bucking or felling them wrong.  You can also get seriously hurt if you have little to no experience.

Finally, ALWAYS get a second opinion.  I don't care if it is from another logger or another forester, just get one.  Since you are located in CT, there are several good foresters in the surrounding states.  I can think of a few that I would at least talk to.  They may be more to your liking, since it doesn't sound like you are ready for a final harvest.

[ButtonRock]

thanks for all the help, for now i have to establish some trails and won't cut any of the big stuff untill I feel comfortable with directional felling, lots of practice to do. For now I will only cut the dead, the crooked and the dying. This is going to be a long term project ;)

[Bro. Noble]

ButtonRock,

Sounds like you have a good plan.
 
When we are cutting back in the woods out of sight, I cut with long term economics in mind-----still like to leave it looking as nice as possible.  When I,m cutting where I drive by everyday, I leave some exceptionally nice trees just to look at.  They are worth more to me that way than in lumber.

Foresters often comment that you can't expect your timberland to look like a park and that is true for large areas.  It is about a mile drive from my house (where our dairy is) to my son's house (where our mill is).  We each make several trips a day between the two.  There are areas where the trees are nice to look at along the way.  I mow some areas and weed-eat to make it look better just for my own enjoyment.  I would like to park some old tractors and machinery along the way (already have whats left of an old Model T and gates made from steel tractor wheels)  but my wife won't let me.

Noble