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Birds Eye Soft Maple

Started by Statewide Forestry, LLC, September 21, 2002, 08:55:02 PM

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Statewide Forestry, LLC

What are some the idintifying characteristics of birds eye red maple?
And what are these multiple bumps up the tree of the smoother grayish bark of red maple trees?

Jeff

Birds-Eye Maple is actually a sugar maple (Acer Saccharum). It is believed that about 90% of the worlds Birds-Eye is found in the northern half of our Michigan's Upper Peninsula. It is also found in other species like Yellow Birch, Cherry, Soft Maple, etc., but is extremely rare in those species. Bird's-Eye cannot be planted and researchers  believe that stress is a big factor in it's development. Crowded conditions, soil prone to drought, hillsides receiving little light and extreme climate are a few factors but no one knows for sure what entirely causes birds-eye

Identifying standing Birds-Eye can be difficult, even for a seasoned forester, but one common indicator I've heard of in Sugar Maple is the "coke-bottle effect" about 3 or 4 feet up from the base of the tree. Some trees may appear as if they have been hit by a shotgun blast, this is actually the eyes growing through the bark. From what I have been told that in most cases the birds-eye is a surprise found when the tree is cut.

In over twenty years of sawing I have seen birds-eye in only 2 Red maple logs. The birds eye was very sparse, just a few eyes near one end.

I am guessing you have heard how much birds-eye logs are worth and are now planning a hunt?  Good luck.

Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Statewide Forestry, LLC

Actually, I am a consultant and have ran across a beautiful stand of Red maple. I tallied up over 120,000 bft(doyle rule) in just 180 trees. When I was up at the Ford Forestry Center (Birds Eye Capital of the world) for school, they showed us how to identify it. But when its standing, you,re right, it is harder to tell for sure. There is certainly evidence that its in the atleast 40% of the trees. Its got the inverted coke bottle look and pin holes in the bark in various places. Curly has also been positively identified in this same stand. And I know that Birds and Curly does oftin have a relationship.
I just want some other opinions and input from anyone who has had an encounter with birds eye. Mabey I can learn something I am not aware of.
Thanks
Jeramie

Ron Wenrich

Are you planning to market it as bird's eye?   I've found it best to let the buyers determine the quality of timber  Just give them reliable numbers.
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Statewide Forestry, LLC

Is this birds eye? I found it in a stand of softmaple. Its not the only one. Birds eye has been cut off this stand before. These petrusions were revealed off an old tree after the bark peeled away.


Statewide Forestry, LLC

I take it that no one knows standing birds eye. ???

Jeff

"Identifying standing Birds-Eye can be difficult, even for a seasoned forester" That is a truth. Why would someone venture to say what that 2 inch picture of bark is.

Jeremie are you a Forester? I was in a meeting with Karen Potter-Whitter down in East Lansing this past Friday. Do you know her?
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Ron Wenrich

I ran your birds-eye question past a lumber grader.  I asked him how much has he seen in soft maple.  His answer is a few and only for a few feet of board.

Now, the next question is how much of a demand is there for birds-eye soft maple?  That market is probably pretty soft.  You might be able to get something in a local niche market.  I have never seen anyone looking for birds-eye soft maple.

If you are really interested in figuring out if that is real birds-eye, why not cut one of those trees down and mill up on site with a portable mill.  It will answer your questions.  We had some local foresters do that on a cherry stand to decide if it was gummy or not.

I have often said that foresters and timber buyers should spend at least one year in a mill to be able to ascertain quality in timber.  They should spend time at the end of the mill, learn lumber grading, watch logs be broken down, and scale and grade logs.  Then they have a chance of becoming a judge of quality in the field.  Until then, they are flying by their pants seat.
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Ron Scott

Extreme skill and experience is needed to identify birds-eye maple in standing trees, especially when it is noted to be out of its normal range.

This may be red maple curl in your photo as there is some in lower Michigan. One really can't put a value on it until the tree is harvested to determine the extent and quality of the curl.

You might want to contact Dr. Glen Mroz of the Michigan Technological University Forestry Department, Houghton, Michigan for further information on identification of birdseye maple. They have done a lot of work and training on it up there since they are in its prime range.
~Ron

mvlynch

Hi folks,
I was looking at some of my own maples and wondering if any of them were birds eye, and I found this useful youtube clip to help me :-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQ_i3x86NR4

POSTON WIDEHEAD

I enjoyed and learned a lot from your video, Mvlynch.
Thanks for sharing and welcome to the Forum.
The older I get I wish my body could Re-Gen.

WmFritz

Great first post. Thanks for resurrecting this thread and adding that video. 8)
I'm not in da  UP  but, I'm itching to look over all the maples around the house. I saw Jeff's shotgun analogy clearly in the video.
~Bill

2012 Homebuilt Bandmill
1959 Detroit built Ferguson TO35

Magicman

Thanks mvlynch, and Welcome to the Forestry Forum.   :)
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Peter Drouin

Wellcome to the FF. I look for that every time I go to a landing, I can tell when I see the end of the log, there have been times I had the logger pull out the log from the pile, the logger would look at me  smiley_headscratch so I told him to stop by the mill. I brought it home and cut it, He came over and got an education. ;D Now he looks for me and saves them. It was going for firewood ::)
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45' of Wood Mizer, cutting since 1987.
License NH softwood grader.

samandothers

Welcome to the forum and thanks for the great video.  Really cool, beautiful grain!

5quarter

Light curl in red maple is not uncommon around here. Heavy curl and birdseye are RARE. I am working a tree right now that is full of heavy curl and some cluster burls. I salvaged not just the log, but all the crotches and branches over 10"wide; perhaps 50 short logs. What little bark there was left showed no evidence of what was going on underneath and the form was not unusual for red maple. I think any positive ID of quality birdseye is not really possible. sure, the tree gives clues that it may be present, but until the log is sawn you can't know the extent and quality for sure and therefore cannot determine an accurate value for the stand, which I'm assuming you're expected to provide to the landowner. It seems either you or the land owner needs to get someone into those woods that really knows what he's looking at. Rons suggestion of getting a saw in there to cut a couple sample logs is a good one, both to establish an average value and something for a prospective buyer to reference. If you can, post a few more pics of the stand to give us a better idea of the job.
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SwampDonkey

Birdseye buyers are real particular. I don't know of any around here buying on the stump. They want them cut and laid out. They have to look at the ends because of the heartwood and also birsdeye will often only be in the outer couple inches and not go deep, meaning it will be in the slab pile when you start sawing. I worked on a town lot one time, it was never cut before because the woodlot was a reserved area for their source of water. Now-a-days towns have water towers around here, so these watershed are being cut off or already cut by now. Anyway, the hard maple in one section was 40" stuff. It had birdseye, but the heart was too big and some of it wasn't all through. The buyer wouldn't touch it. Those big logs went to the pulp mill to be ground up.  :-\ I have found lots of birdseye over the years in standing trees, a couple areas were on camp leased ground on public land. Most of the time on public land. And many big old rock maples up here are like culverts.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

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Glenn

I was a logging foreman, scaler and lumber grader for over twenty years in Algonquin Park. We have a high percentage of figured and birds eye soft or red maple.  The figure is very heavy and in my opinion quite good to look at but is a grey colour and not nearly as sought after as hard maple of the same character.  The soft and red maple trees are not that difficult to tell if they have birds eye once you get used to what to look for.  The best trees are slow growing trees that are in a site that does not make for fast growth - north side of the slope, lower slope in wetter area, usually with yellow birch.  The bark will appear loose and under the bark it will look like knuckles.
If i was grading soft maple it was not unheard of to get a full lift of figured and birds eye every three days or so.
Now this is on the southern side of Algonquin, the northern side is mostly pine.

SwampDonkey

I know John Sadler's mill at Wapske, NB pulled all kinds of hard maple birdseye and curl (maple and birch) every week from the sawing. It was sold separate. His wood was 99% off crown land license. I think they get a lot up in St-Quentin (Group Savoie) as well at that hardwood mill. I could buy it locally here at Maritime Lumber, as most of their maple was NB grown.

I have quite a bit of hit and miss birdseye in regular select grade boards. Every time I finish up a maple project I see figure some place. :)
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Ron Scott

~Ron

SwampDonkey

I find that the eyes come out in the bark. I'll see where someone will hack tree bark to look for eye and it's right there in the bark. Looking at the sapwood on a standing tree wouldn't tell you any more than the bark, in that it has eye. Still don't know the extent into the wood. The natives around here for awhile had a field day poaching birdseye. If the buyer were caught they would be strung up, because it's like poaching salmon. DFO, for instance, always charged the buyer.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

5quarter

It was an informative video Ron. In particular, the Forester mentions that the more forest that comes under mgmt., the less Birdseye will be found. I wonder if it would be profitable to manage for maples containing birdeye in those areas known to contain a higher % of trees containing birdseye. I imagine one might run into the same problem in having to determine the quality and volume of birdseye, so as to decide whether or not it is profitable to let these trees mature at the expense of slowing the growth of known high value timber. If I were such a landowner, it would be a nice problem to have.  ;)
What is this leisure time of which you speak?
Blue Harbor Refinishing

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