Big question for a first post

[Woodhack]

Hi there. First post and I have a big question. Last week a contractor friend approached me about some trees he's had cleared for a building project. He thought I may be interested in some of the wood because I'm a furniture builder. Free, both he and the land owner just wanted them gone. I went out the day before yesterday to seal the ends since they've been on the ground about a month with no one to look after them. Turns out it's not a few trees but 87 trees of mixed Alder, Oak and Maple. After convincing the owner that they don't want to simply trash the trees, we came up with that I could make some doors, furniture etc. for the house, but the rest is up to me. I'll obviously keep some wood, but will cut and sell most of it as partial payment for what gets built and simply dealing with it. Here's my question...is it even worth for me to invest in a mill to do this myself? I've always harbored the idea of milling my own lumber and maybe supplementing my income as a part time sawyer. The building site has the space for the milling and drying if needed as the project is only just beginning and will take a year or so. The friend has an empty barn that could store the lumber as it came from the local kiln. This may be a good opportunity to get into it. But is the amount just too much? I have no idea how long it would take to mill this much working weekends giving that I start at the bottom of sawing knowledge. The other route would be to just partner up with an existing sawyer, but is it feasible to expect someone to work just for a share? The first step I suppose is to figure out what the possible yield may be and try to estimate what its worth. I really wasn't prepared for this event so I'm heading back this weekend to take a good census on what's there and will try to post pics later.

I'd like to hear your thoughts though.

[Bibbyman]

Welcome to the Forum Woodhack, 8)

You've been wanting one anyway,  I'd say .. Go shopin' for a mill and start ligning up frends to help.  Most of us didn't have that good a start.

As for what kind of a deal,  it'd be hard for anyone here to judge without seeing the logs and what it'll take to get a return money wise.  But for a first time adventure and training tool, priceless.

[Gary_C]

Go for it. Just be careful of what you promise to pay for the logs that he just wants to get rid of and it is not a good idea to saw them on site. When he sees the good wood you saw from the free logs he may want more for the logs.

[crtreedude]

Asking this crew if you should buy a sawmill is liking asking an junkie if he wants more drugs...  :

It does sound pretty good though. With that many logs, you might actually be able to justify most of the costs of the sawmill.  8)

You will sure know if you want to do it by the time you finish!

A question perhaps - does it make sense to see if there is a local person who has a saw who will go haves with you? Then you would have half the wood, and he the other and you could find out if a saw is what you want. Also, an experienced operator may well produce more wood than you would, so you might not damage as much wood.

[Ron Wenrich]

There are several ways to look at it.  One would be to go out and get a mill and dive right into it.  87 logs sounds like a lot, but it really won't last that long, depending on size.

Another would be to hire a sawyer to come in and make some lumber.  You could find someone to saw on shares, but it would be a lot easier to pay them by the foot or by the hour.

It might be a good idea to figure up how much wood you are talking about.  Measure the small end, inside bark and the length of log.  Go to "Forum Extras" in the right hand corner of your browser.  There you will find calculators to help determine how much lumber there is in your logs.

How much money do you want to invest in a mill?  You won't be paying it back on this job.  Then, you'll have a mill that sits idle while you are making doors, etc.  Will that be OK?

You will have a learning curve when you start sawing.  You will lose lumber due to miscuts, until you get the hang of it.  Is that OK?

I'm not trying to steer you away from a mill.  I just want you to make sure you have your eyes wide open before you leap.  If you haven't been around a mill, it would be a good idea to drop by someone's operation.  They love to talk about their mills.  

[Daren]

I've always harbored the idea of milling my own lumber

There is part of the answer to your question. I can't give you a full answer, just more stuff to think about. You can get into a small manual mill new pretty cheap ($5000) or a used one cheaper, saw those logs and if you hate it you can sell the mill when you are done for pretty close to what you paid for the mill. Considering you have a nice stack of lumber worth more than you lost, if any, on the mill. Everyone here will tell you, once bitten by the sawbug you are hooked. We drive by standing trees and see inside of them now, have a bft est. in our heads and see the grain of the lumber. (or is that just me?). You could probably find a sawyer to cut shares, you would get the little share, how much lumber do you need? Sounds like you have storage. If your friend is a contractor and is often clearing trees that need to be removed for free that is a good start for a part time sawyer. I was just like you, had trees, wanted to try sawing... so I bought a mill, I love it. But there are some things I didn't think about before I jumped in. The big one is material handling. Have you got a way to move logs? Sure I only spent $5000 on a mill, then had to go out and spend another $10,000 on trailers and a skidsteer for mill support. That may not apply to you. How big of logs do you have access to? Around here 75% are small (24" or less), so a bandmill does the job. If you are going to be sawing big ones most of the time you may want to look into a swing mill. Saves alot of the material handling, you don't have to bring the logs to the mill. The mill sets over the log.

[Paschale]

On the other side of the equation, I'd be sure that you and the home builder have a clear understanding about what making "doors, furniture, etc." means.  You'd hate for the home builder to feel like this is a blank check for him to have his own personl cabinetmaker on call--I'd set up some sort of a contract.   :P

[Lud]

Welcome A-board woodhack!  you are one lucky guy! 8)

Like Daren says- Buy it- try it!  Cut it thick for rails ,  cut it thin for panels, mirror match grains........your repitoire will expand exponentially with a mill.

Sure ,  you got to learn.  But you've got a lot of 'sticks' to learn on.  It's perfect!

[Wyatt]

woodhack, I was in the same place 6 years ago. I live across road from an Audobon area and they had a bunch of winblown cherry. Long story short me and a freind (also a furnitue maker) shared in work and cutting costs. We pulled out over 100 logs ave 16" (right before cherry hit the roof)! took about 6 days of cutting (man with woodmizer) and I built a solar kiln (now have DH). As I remember it cost about .25' cutting for 12000'. It all went pretty smooth with all of us helping. Had to buy stickers, get kiln set up, pay neihbors to tractor. All said and done, I've used some very nice cherry, sold some althought it is not as easy as one would think, and I still have some left. I peronally would opt to have it sawn by someone else, and see how it goes this time. There are a lot of things to consider and theres always a next time. Now I cut at least once a year with logs I get here or there, and dry myself. I sell some and keep the great stuff for my business. I pay the sawyer and I even have been renting a bobcatw/forks when I cut and I'm still money ahead! Think about it.

[Weekend_Sawyer]

Of course buy a mill!!! :

I have made great frends and learned soooo much since I bought my mill and started hanging out here.

You just joined the salt of the earth club, welcome abord, come back often ;D

Jon

[tnlogger]

welcome aboad Woodhack 
just remember if ya get a mill that you'll look at boards in a whole new way. if you decide to have them sawed remember the odd and ugly ones to a furnature maker the are the best  ;D

[Kirk_Allen]

IF the logs have been down for a month they are no good.  Not worth buying a mill because its just not going to pay in the long run.  I would suggest leave those old logs alone and hope for a better oportunity in the future. ;D

In the mean time, I bet if you give Frank Pender a call he might haul off those old logs as a favor  ;D :D

[Gilman]

I'm going to be up in the Seattle area around December 12-15th.  Where are you located?  I might be able to stop by and say, "howdy."

[Woodhack]

Thanks everyone for the great thoughts. I'm heading out today to get a better idea of what's involved. After contemplating your thoughts, and staying up reading through similar posts, I agree with the comments that perhaps for this first time I should hire someone and help to get a better idea of the process and learn a little by seeing it done. Living where I do, I come across these deals once in a while given that relationships I have with a number of builders so I'm confident there will be a next time. While this particular builder has been a friend since childhood, I'm by no means naive that other deals won't be as friendly. Keeping in mind that next time won't include all the extras this one offers, I need to keep in mind the additional space, equipment besides the mill, labor expenses (I currently work alone), etc. that would quickly add up. It's giving me a new idea for adding to my business, but I just want to make sure that it's the right one for me.

Thanks for pointing me to the calculators for figuring out yield and I'll post pictures as soon as I can.

[Frickman]

Asking this crew if you should buy a sawmill is liking asking an junkie if he wants more drugs...  :

It does sound pretty good though. With that many logs, you might actually be able to justify most of the costs of the sawmill.  8)

You will sure know if you want to do it by the time you finish!

A question perhaps - does it make sense to see if there is a local person who has a saw who will go haves with you? Then you would have half the wood, and he the other and you could find out if a saw is what you want. Also, an experienced operator may well produce more wood than you would, so you might not damage as much wood.

I like the junkie part   

Welcome aboard Woodhack, you came to the right place!

Hire someone else first to saw. Then you'll know if you really have the bug, and you can go get your own mill.

[fencerowphil (Phil L.)]

Welcome Woodhack,

This number of logs, and being on the ground a while already,
are two factors which make me agree to work on a share basis
with an experienced sawyer.   If the sawyer has a support equipment
package (ie Bobcat or 4-wheel drive tractor) and travels with that
combo,  even a 40/60 split in his favor is fine in this case- believe me!

You will be needing over 1000 dry stickers to properly stack the boards.
(400 or more for your part.)  I'm thinking of 4 ft. wide piles averaging 12' length
4/4 cut, stickering on 2' centers.  Then you will want to properly roof the piles.
On Burr Oak, and any slow-dry species you may want to wrap with ShadeDry or
some sort of open mesh fabric like weed block.

Written agreements all the way around, as advised above,  will be important.

Phil L.

[Sawyerfortyish]

One thing nobodys mentioned here. Will it be ok with the homeowner if these trees lay on his future lawn for some time before getting all this work done?. Maybe a few months. What about the mess the slabs,bark sawdust,firewood you'll spend a lot of time just cleanning up. I know if I were the landowner building a new house I would want to get er done including the landscaping. That said you need to know where to stop sawing lumber in a tree and cut firewood. Don't bite off more than you can chew by buying a mill this isn't something a greenhorn can do in a short time. You'll have all you can do just to take care of the lumber that gets cut. My vote is to hire it out. Get a sawyer with some knowledge to do the work.

[Don K]

Welcome Woodhack.  Some big decisions to be made, But take your time and it will all work out.   

[wesdor]

Not sure where in the Seattle area the logs are located, but I know someone who has a big mill in Leavenworth and you could probably make a deal with him to cut them for you.  His mill is NOT portable but he can handle some pretty big logs.

Let me know if you have a way to haul them over the mountains.