iDRY Vacuum Kilns

Sponsors:

Need advice on a truck to move logs and......

Started by GareyD, November 30, 2005, 05:04:03 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

GareyD

For the last year or so. I've been looking for a good old truck to move some logs with...

I've just about narrowed my choices down to these two trucks pictured below...

This one is a Ford 700 with a boom


The Ford from the working side...looks like I could add a grapple ???


This one is a Chev C60...Tip back with a Ramsey 12,000 lb. winch, new goodwrench motor and clutch...tires are shot though :(


Could you share your opinions with me on which style would be the better choice for moving logs and things around the farm and the local counties....
The statistics on sanity are that one out of every four persons is suffering from some sort of mental illness. Think of your three best friends, if they're okay, then it's you.

Fla._Deadheader


Much as I dislike Fords, I DO like Boom trucks.

  Looks like dat Chebby might get light on the front with a big Whack-O-logs ;D ;D
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

ronwood

I would go for the boom truck if it was my choice. Can do more things with a boom.

Ron
Sawing part time mostly urban logs -St. Louis/Warrenton, Mo.
LT40HG25 Woodmizer Sawmill
LX885 New Holland Skidsteer

Kirk_Allen

Both should work great but I would probably go with the Chevy since it has the tilting bed.  Lots of benefits with that, which may come in handy in the future....................but then again loading would be done by dragging them up the ramp with the winch and that will take longer than using the boom.  It would sure come in handy on grabbing a broke down car, which you couldnt do to easy with the boom on the Ford  ;D

How long of a reach does the boom have?  

New motor and clutch is a plus on the Chevy as is the cost of repairs.  Ford seems to have great stuff but when it breaks bring the bank with you.

If the winch breaks down its a cheap replacement or fix.  What would it cost to fix or repair, replace stuff on the boom?  

The Chevy gets my pick for now.

What year are they?

stumpy

In my opinion, it depends on where you get the logs from. If you can always pull up next to them, or at least easily get them next to the truck, I'd go with the boom. I am partial to booms, but in my situation, I pick up alot of logs from many different locations and find that a winch (I have one on a flatbed trailer) is much more versatile and the tiltbed is even more of a help,
Woodmizer LT30, NHL785 skidsteer, IH 444 tractor

wiam


Fla._Deadheader

All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

oakiemac

My 2 cents would be to get the boom truck. With winch truck you can only load one "layer" of logs but with boom you can stack them up as high as weight limits will allow.
Or do what FDH suggest and mount a winch on the boom.
Mobile Demension sawmill, Bobcat 873 loader, 3 dry kilns and a long "to do" list.

Tom

 One thing that might make up your mind for you is insurance.  check on what it will cost for both trucks.

I took a dump truck off of the road because of the high insurance rates.  My straight flat bed is very reasonable.

Ironwood

As much as I like Kirk, I couldn't agree less. The boom can stack and stack. The boom looks like a HIAB, I almost bought one like that about two years ago, it looked well built and was simply designed (a plus). And the ford /chevy thing well, I am a ford man so no brainer there. Sorry Kik,I know you have had good luck with your Suburban (flukes do happen)  ;D

                   REID
There is no scarcity of opportunity to make a living at what you love to do, there is only scarcity of resolve to make it happen.- Wayne Dyer

PawNature

Given the choice of the two. I would definately pick the boom for what you want to do.  Aside from hauling logs you will be able to do a lot more around your property with the boom truck.
As far as chevy vs ford in my humble opinion a truck is a truck. Just make sure the engine and running gears are ok.
GOVERMENT HAS WAY TO MUCH CONTROL OVER OUR LIVES!!!!

rebocardo

imo, Kind of apples to oranges.

The Ford is meant to be used as a real work truck, long wheel base, outriggers, boom, probably has at least a 25K GVW. How much the boom is rated for is the big question and if it can be equippped with a winch or grapple.

The Chevy is a short wheel base with a slightly longer frame with a rollback. Just pretty much a car hauler. It looks like if you put a load of 16 footers on that, the vast majority of the weight will be behind the rear wheels. Not so good. Chevy is probably not rated for more then 17K or so.

Personally, I would like a rollback for my type of work, just to pull on a single big log. I do not think the rollback would be good for multiple logs. Though if you did firewood deliveries by the cords it might be the better choice for unloading, though loading (tossing) it might be a pain.

With a boom you can grab a pallet of firewood to load and unload.

The Chevy will probably drive much smoother, have power steering, probably shift easier, though it might be more expensive to repair/run.

The Ford will be ... a Ford. Dead simple to work on, will not cost a lot to operate, probably the FT series engine and will last forever. Will have a bulky feel shifter (by today's standard), probably no power steering, and oh yea, its going to have rack and pinion steering along with A/C  - yea, right. Creature comfort is not a phrase used in Ford's sales catalog for that F700  :D

If you like Chevy /foreign type vehicles, the Ford might wear thin after a while if you do a lot of highway driving. If you like Fords, then either one probably will do.

Though you forgot to qualify it by the two most important questions, GVW and how much for each one?

The Ford is probably $2k-3k if it runs nice, the Chevy is probably at least $5k being a later model rollback?

sawguy21

Not an issue around the farm but that single axle Ford may be too close to it's GVWR to be hauling logs on the road. I ran into that problem with a similar International so the company got a tandem but then we did not enough people available with a class 3 and air endorsement.
old age and treachery will always overcome youth and enthusiasm

Kirk_Allen

OK Ried, we will agree to disagree.......................this time. 

I am so sorry your a Ford person.  I understand the emotional attachment and respect your perogative to drive a piece of #@$%  ;D    All you Ford lovers just back off for now because this is between Reid and I ;D

Still lots of questions though  ;D
GVW of each truck
Cost of each truck
How many logs in a typical load?  For me it is USUALY three or four logs...................excetp recently  :D ;D 8)
Ford Parts are typically more expensive than Chevy.
Chevy has a new engine - Whats in the Ford and how many miles?

I have nothing against the Ford with the Boom and I am wanting to put a Boom on my trailer.........IF IT WASN"T SO EXPENSIVE ;D  I was going to put one on my Dads F600 but that truck also had a dump bed so I had best of both worlds.    Now I need a motor for the F600.  Jasper wants $2500 to rebuild it.  I could put a new crate motor in for $1500 if it was a Chevy.   ;D



Jeff

I have this almost uncontrollable urge to use my censored words option on the forum and have every instance of Chevy turn into Ford and every instance of Ford turn into Chevy.  ;D
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Fla._Deadheader


In DAT case, too bad dere ain't an ole "Binder" choice throwed in. Best truck EVER built.  ;) 8) 8) 8)
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

Kirk_Allen

For the Record!  I own a Chevy, Ford, and a Dodge!  So before anyone wants to pick a fight think long and hard  ;D :D :o

tnlogger

wal now kirk I see the chevy runs I know dat da ford dunt how bout the binder  ;D
know as far as I go it's chevy all the way cause my better half dont like no F.O.R.D. she blows the up fer fun  :D :D
gene

woodhick

First off I agree with FDH, if you want a serious truck find an international.  Now as too which one?  Let me give my advice for the two cents it's worth.  I recently had a two ton international with a 20' flatbed.  I traded a homade band saw head to a buddy for a resaw.  Replaced hood and doors on truck with used ones form local utility company and truck was in very good condition.  Utility co also had an old Chevy Boom truck that I bought for $1000.  It had a RO stinger boom not a knuckle boom  as the ford on your pic.  Then knuckle type would problably be better for handling logs but has very little reach.  Mine had 45' of reach.   Several things to consider.
1.  As tom said check your insurance!!!  I sold my truck as I could'nt afford $3-4,000 year liabilty just to haoul a few logs.

2.  I don't know what your using to skid your logs out of the woods to a landing but looks like you won't be able to reach very far out with the knuckle boom.  As I  said mine had 45" reach and this proved to be too short several times.

3.  Check the capacity of the crane at its farthest reach.  I am just guessing here but that carane looks to me to be a Pittman crane designed for tire trucks.  If it is I have looked at several of these and the capacity is low.  you would only be able to pick up larger logs right against the truck.  Even then I doubt if it would pick up a 24"x16' oak log.

4. Check the crane over VERY WELL for any cracks or repair welds.

As to the ford or chevy, they all make good ones and they all make bad ones.  Good Luck. ;)
Woodmizer LT40 Super 42hp Kubota, and more heavy iron woodworking equipment than I have room for.

Kirk_Allen

tnlogger, my Ford car is running but not the truck ;D  I lean towards Chevy personally but who wouldnt with almost 500,000 miles on a Suburban 8)

ScottAR

Since I'm back in the auto parts biz, I can tell you they all got problems...

The only ones I really dislike are the non toyota foreign cars...  DanG japanese can't make somthing and stick to it for a season... 


I drive a Ford with an IH engine....  I'm now confused but happy...   :D :D
Scott
"There is much that I need to do, even more that I want to do, and even less that I can do."
[Magicman]

GareyD

Wow :o, thanks for all the replies..reading them is kinda like reliving the thoughts that have been runnin around in my head for the last couple of months....

The ford is a '70...got pretty decent tires..the motor is in fair condition...shifts good...stops good...and steers Like a log truck :D...not sure of the GVMW

The boom as it stands right now looks to be in good shape...not covered in hydro fluid and seems to be tight in all the swivel/bendy places :D :D. I can see where there used to be an extenda boom..but they have taken the cylinder off and diverted that circuit to the stabilizers. so the boom will only reach immediately beside the bed, hafta look into that a little closer to see what it will take to repair...the owner owns a tree service and replaced this truck with a newer model with a big thumb loader...sez that he never found a log that the boom wouldn't lift ::)

The Chebby is a '79...only has about 1,000 miles on that new goodwrench motor..the only thing that I can find wrong with the whole truck is a leaky axle gasket on the outside left rear...and all the tires need replacing real soon :(..It is licensed at 18,000 lbs.

Talked to my insurance agent...the rate wasn't gonna be too bad on either of the trucks since I'm gonna license them as farm truck, limited mileage...but they want anything over 30 years old to be certified as roadworthy by an actual garage mechanic...got several friends that can take care of that for me ;)

As far as the logs that I need to haul, there is usually only one big yard tree, or 3-4 smaller trees that are in someones way....I have about 60 tornado damaged trees that I have already cut down and stacked on smaller trees off the ground out of the owners way...they are only about 12 miles from the house and I can go get them at my convenience, no hurry from the landowners

The asking price on the Ford is $4,000...I stopped by today and offered him $2,500...time will tell :) :)

The asking price on the Chebby is $5.950...I stopped and offered him $4,000 because it needs tires real bad, real soom....but...came to find out that he is rebuildin a barn and a couple of sheds that have fallen down around his place...left him thinkin about tradin lumber towards the truck...he'll get back with me tomorrow ;D

I do have a question about the tip back and logs...If I winched the logs on butt first wouldn't that help to keep the load in front of the axle...the bed is 16 foot long and is about 8 inches in front of center over the axle....
The statistics on sanity are that one out of every four persons is suffering from some sort of mental illness. Think of your three best friends, if they're okay, then it's you.

Kirk_Allen

Sounds like your on track Gary.  Your definatly onto something with loading the butt end first.  Since your only talking a few logs at a time it doesnt sound like stacking logs is an issue.  I guess either one will work for your purpose and now its down to the best offer. 

I am betting the guy with the chevy is ready to deal some wood! 

Bro. Noble

I agree about putting the butt forward,  but how would you load multiple logs?  Is there some provision for keeping the bed tilted untill they are all loaded and then locking it so it doesn't tilt after it's loaded?

That tilt bed would sure be nice for hauling machinery.  If you aren't hauling very far and you had several logs,  you could haul a loader to the site,  load a bunch of logs,  and then come back for the loader.

In our area,  most loggers have a loader in the woods and depend on the mill to unload the logs.  A few years ago the most common logging truck had a side loader( locally called a loggers dream) that worked off of the truck's pto.  These are now pretty much obsolete and can be bought with the logbed very reasonable.  This might be the sort of thing that would work for you.
milking and logging and sawing and milking

Fla._Deadheader

 Speaking from 'sperense, I had a load of big SYP on a 1 ton one time. Logs were securely on the bed and chained down. When I started up a hil, things were fine. I ran the hill as hard as that clunker Ford (360) would go, but, it ran out of guts before we got to the top. I shifted down 2 gears, and the truck reared like a Bronc, when I gassed it. I stopped. Put the truck in 1st, about 15 MPH wide open was the gearing, and when I let the clutch out, carefully, that crazy truck would rear up. When I hit the brakes, the truck would come back down, and set over, crossways in the road.

  Did this so many times, I ended up backing up the hill.  ::) ::) ::)

  P.S.  I've seen yer roads and driveway  ::) ::) ;) :) :)
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

GareyD

Noble, ya wouldn't have any pictures of them side loaders would ya??
The statistics on sanity are that one out of every four persons is suffering from some sort of mental illness. Think of your three best friends, if they're okay, then it's you.

GareyD

Quote from: Fla._Deadheader on December 01, 2005, 10:06:13 PM
  P.S.  I've seen yer roads and driveway  ::) ::) ;) :) :)

Ya also seen them 2 one ton dumps that I got parked at the bottom of the hill....that's why I'm lookin fer a bigger truck...been there, dun that...throwed the T-shirt away :D :D :D
The statistics on sanity are that one out of every four persons is suffering from some sort of mental illness. Think of your three best friends, if they're okay, then it's you.

Fla._Deadheader

All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

Bro. Noble

Gary,

I don't have pictures or any means of posting them,  but probably someone does or at least knows the real name for them so you could do a search.  I think 'loggers dream'  was a brand name of a company that used to make logging equipment.  The arms of these loaders lowered to the ground where the logs were staged.  The logs were rolled onto the arms with a cant hook and then the arms tossed the logs onto the bed.  There were 'trip stakes' on the other side of the bed that were lowered by remote control to allow unloading. 
milking and logging and sawing and milking

beenthere

FDH
Sure reminds me of a load of cottonwood logs I had on a '49 Ford flatbed, with a similar reaction. I was in super low and winding out the flat V-8 and coming up a steep farm road to get out of a ravine. As the front wheels came to the edge of the road, the front end just kept going up, and not coming down until the back wheels were up on the road. I let off and the front end came down with a bang.  There I sat, cross ways on a narrow road with a ditch in front, and the steep drive to the rear. Some jockeying back and forth to get turned and going in the right direction. Not the only similar experience with logs on that truck, as well as one where I delivered 2,000 bf of green oak lumber in one trip.  ::)
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

sawguy21

Quote from: Jeff B on December 01, 2005, 10:07:16 AM
I have this almost uncontrollable urge to use my censored words option on the forum and have every instance of Dodge turn into International and every instance of Toyota turn into Datsun.  ;D
Just havin a little fun with ya ;D
old age and treachery will always overcome youth and enthusiasm

tnlogger

Gary  you have all kinds of them down your way (side loader) (Savannah loader)
I'll try to find a pic for ya. they have two arms on the bed working off a pto and a rearend for a winch. like the old short wood trucks used for pulpwood they also had what was called a big stick loader that had a hydralic for lift and swing like the old prentice loaders
here is a link to one of the first prentice log loaders
http://www.vannattabros.com/drott.html
gene

Corley5

Burnt Gunpowder is the Smell Of Freedom

junkyard

Seems like from the time that trucks took over from the horses and the river people had
"dummy jobs". This was a truck with an extended frame with another rear axle and spring behind the drive axle to get the capacity. During the fifties the tandems came along as the older dummy jobs wore out the tandems took over the only dummy setups are in the bone yard and most loggers use trailors now.  The dummies gave you a longer wheelbase and extra carring capacity. Am F8 Ford with 5speed tranny and two speed rear could haul 8 or 9 cords of pulpwood.
In thelate 70's I put dummies on a one ton dodge I could haul 4 cords of pulpwood.
                       Junkyard
If it's free, It's for me. If for pay, leave it lay.

sawguy21

Here your dummy job is referred to as a tag axle. They were popular but the problem was extra weight with no power to them  for traction. The big motor homes still use them.
old age and treachery will always overcome youth and enthusiasm

Ironwood

FDH,

   WOW, that sounds like an interesting day. I would have had to replace my shorts on that one!! The only thing even remotely similar I did was to coast down in reverse gear while moving forward in a DODGE van with an auto trans. We were travelling up Spruce Knob W. Va. (highest point in wva) and the snow got deeper and deeper as we went, I kept thinking a turnaround was ahead, well miles and many vertical feet later the snow was soo deep we had to tire chain up the van turn around on the road an coast back down while in reverse and when I needed brakes TAP the gas pedal. THERE ARE NO GUARD RAILS mind you and MANY steep drops. :o I had the attention of everyone on the van. all 9 troubled teens and the other staff member were one the edge of their seats. .........................GOD was looking out for us!!!! More good Experiential Education for ME :). (definately a teachable moment).

   Kirk,..................Make me an offer. Like cash plus some really cool Walnut crotches and cherry crotches, something in the catagory of "WOW, nice wood man" I think there is room to work together on this.


           Reid
There is no scarcity of opportunity to make a living at what you love to do, there is only scarcity of resolve to make it happen.- Wayne Dyer

Kirk_Allen

Well Reid, I think we could work up a sweet deal but it would mean you coming out here and sorting through my 10 foot stackes of Walnut and Cherry ;D

Ironwood

There is no scarcity of opportunity to make a living at what you love to do, there is only scarcity of resolve to make it happen.- Wayne Dyer

Kirk_Allen

What part of the stack do you want a pic of :D  The side, front, top or back?

It is all stacked and air dried and to unstack it bymyself is beyond my comprehension in this cold. 

There are some photos of some of the unique cherry slabs in my gallery. 

Ironwood

Kirk,

   Perhaps you should have relocated to Costa Rica or Mexico. I thought you were stationed in Alaska???. Too many POSH, USAF assignments has weaked you. Don't tell me that deer ran right up to you within the first five minutes of hunting and then you were able to return to your warm house???????????


                    REID ;D
There is no scarcity of opportunity to make a living at what you love to do, there is only scarcity of resolve to make it happen.- Wayne Dyer

Kirk_Allen

Now Reid, Everyone around these parts know we dont sit more than an hour.  Just no need ;D  My longest sit this year before letting an arrow fly was about 30 minutes.  We ALMOST have them pegged down to that 5 minute mark but not quite. 

Yes, I was in Alaska and one thing of MAJOR importance that EVERY MAN learns in Alaska is how to become Ambitiously Lazy ;D   You see, I work REAL HARD at figureing out ways I can just relax ;D :D 8)

Us fly boys believe in working smart before HAVING to work hard ;D

Ironwood

Kirk,

Just make sure the safety wire is tight! :o :o Reid
There is no scarcity of opportunity to make a living at what you love to do, there is only scarcity of resolve to make it happen.- Wayne Dyer

Kirk_Allen

Still use the wire today.   8) 8)  I am down to my last roll of  .032 wire from Uncle Sam :o

rebocardo

Trading wood for the truck seems ideal  8)

> but how would you load multiple logs

I was thinking about this too. If this helps the Chevy deal, here is how I might do it.

Rollbacks usually have chain holds on each side of the bed in front for attaching chains. If you added stake pockets with metal stakes so the log could not roll off and kill you, I think you might be able to winch a log on using a choker on the butt end, put the chain in the hold, then release the winch so the chain tightens around the log from the hanging weight. Then lower the bed, chain the log left and right so it can not move sidewards.

Then winch on another log besides it.

Maybe you could choker two smaller logs at once if you put low sides on the bed?

At a 45 degree angle pull a winch will lose about 2/3 of its power in a non rolling load vs. its stated capacity????

Fla._Deadheader

All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

Kirk_Allen

Why not buy both trucks.  Give them both a work out and sell the one that you dont like ;D

Ironwood

Yeah listen to KIRK,................You big spender!! ;D ;D ;D :D :D ;)
There is no scarcity of opportunity to make a living at what you love to do, there is only scarcity of resolve to make it happen.- Wayne Dyer

Rockn H

Hey GareyD, does the pic of the roll back do it justice?  I mean a roll back should slide back about 4' before you tilt it.  The pic looks like the wheel base is short enough that you can just tilt it without sliding it back at all.  If that's the case you should pass on it unless you intend on extending the truck frame and the roll back still has the slides and cylinder to slide it with. ;)

GareyD

Ain't no roll to this truck...just a tip back ;D

Why are ya sayin I should pass on it ???
The statistics on sanity are that one out of every four persons is suffering from some sort of mental illness. Think of your three best friends, if they're okay, then it's you.

Tom

I favor the Boom truck.  I'm not considering the truck itself, just the bed and how it would handle logs.

I really do like the idea of having outriggers.

The boom would be much more useful.  I would build some ramps for the back though, so that a tractor could be driven up onto the truck.  Weight wouldn't be too much of a consideration because you could use the boom to load and unload them.  You could even make them such that they were side-boards for the bed and they wouldn't take up much room.

The only good thing about the tilt-back is unloading and that would be messy compared to the boom.

metalspinner

The fella I hire to move the occasional log I can't handle has a Ford with a boom and the roll back bed (same truck).  He used the roll back for a 50" by 16' Red oak with no problem.  A few weeks later, he used the boom with a winch to pull and lift many logs onto the deck with out any damage to a well manicured lawn.  It is a very versital set-up.  I wish he didn't charge so much! :o
I do what the little voices in my wife's head tell me to do.

GareyD

Thanks to all for the reply's....I haven't forgotten and/or gotten gettin' a truck yet...

Still have offers in on both of the original trucks that I was looking at...just won't nobody take time what with the holidays and all to stop and partake of a good horsetradin' :D :D

Went to Tennessee to pick up the grandsons Saturday for the holidays....stopped and talked to a feller with lots of trucks parked around his place.

Seems he is in the process of puttin a "Big Thumb" loader with a 20 ton winch on a rollback bed....just hasn't decided which truck he is gonna mount it on....gonna stop back by when I take the boys home after new years and get serious with him...this could be just the outfit that I have been lookin for 8) 8)
The statistics on sanity are that one out of every four persons is suffering from some sort of mental illness. Think of your three best friends, if they're okay, then it's you.

Thank You Sponsors!