overhalling my future bandsaw engine

[Modat22]

While I'm wait-in on finances to let me order more stuff to build my bandsaw head, I decided to start overhalling my old 1952 wisconsin 4 cylinder that will be powering the beast. I'm using this motor because it only cost me 50 bucks. It looks like I'm gonna be spending an extra 150 - 200 bucks on the engine but in my opinion it will be worth the cost.



This is what is started out looking like.

Fast forward to a little advanced teardown....


its awful hard being orderly in a 12' x 16' shop filled with toys but I'm try-in


I had in install a 4x4 above my ceiling this morning to use my engine hoist in here, I was happy everytime I had to flip this thing upside down. Man was this thing dirty, I bet I got 11 pounds of mud dobber nests out of it.




No valve spring compressor? No problem, El cheapo wood clamp conversion. I honestly think it works better and faster than a real vsp tool.



froze rings and a broken oil ring, I bet this thing used to really smoke in its day.




Its supposed to have that slit, earlier engines used the slits like this to get oil onto the cylinder walls. Some newer engines probably still do. Works well because this engine has prestine cylinders!




Notice anything funny in this picture? I didn't think it was funny to break off 12 bolts in the jug. This one gave me stomach ulcers, I tried using snap-on extractors and broke one so I decided to bore those bolts out!




The mill worked great! I only have to run a tap thru those fresh holes and I'm back in buisness. I'm going to be using 9/16 grade 8 bolts this time instead of 1/2 inch.




Another jug mounted in mill shot. Looks pretty good.




Here's the other jug still mounted, I only broke off one bolt on this side, I'll prob ably not work on this till next week.

Next friday I'm putting in an order for, complete gasket set, 1 piston, 8 new valves (the old ones where cupped baddly), carb rebuilt kit and fuel pump.

I'll update after I get my parts.

[Fla._Deadheader]

Lookin good so far  8)

[J_T]

The motors that had the fuel tank mounted above it had no fuel pump 8)

[sawguy21]

Looking good but can you buy your parts for anywhere near $200? They are DanG expensive here.
That one looks about like the first one I did. It had been outside on a swather with no rain cap on the muffler. The customer brought it in as a basket case and had broken every head bolt :. Do that bad boy properly and you will have one tough engine.
Here is a useful link if it has magneto ignition. Good luck with your project
http://www.magnetoparts.com/fmc.htm

[Modat22]

the parts aren't to bad, gasket set is 50.00, (1) new piston is 22.00, fuel pump for 25.00, new starter bendex 23.00.

I'll probably run over with my valves, I have to replace all of them and send out the jugs to have the valve seats ground or replaced and if I'll just let them do a complete valve job.

[Modat22]

Looking good but can you buy your parts for anywhere near $200? They are DanG expensive here.
That one looks about like the first one I did. It had been outside on a swather with no rain cap on the muffler. The customer brought it in as a basket case and had broken every head bolt :. Do that bad boy properly and you will have one tough engine.
Here is a useful link if it has magneto ignition. Good luck with your project
http://www.magnetoparts.com/fmc.htm

there's a thread on here somewhere that had a guy posting his buisness card on ebay.
The thread title was "this slick way of advertising" he has decent prices on wisconsin parts.

[edsaws]

Lookin good. Its good to see your putting that mill to work. Thats one nice toy I wouldn't mine having in my shop. 

[Jeff]

So did rust reaper have a part in getting it apart?

[Modat22]

Nah, I'm waiting for it to arrive, I ended up using my dremel tool to saw all the nuts off (ouch!) don't worry though I hope to use it on the distributer and starter I need to save all the fastening hardware for those.

[GF]

Them old Wisconsin engines have some weight to them, but one thing about it they seem to run forever.  I had a VH4D on mine that was 35 yrs olds, it was blowing oil back through the crankcase.  Iw as going to rebuild it but parts etc seemed awful high.  Ended up putting a new 31 HP Briggs Commercial V-Twin on it.

Another thing on the Wisconsin Engine for remote throttle I used a 12/24 Enostat gear motor from surplus center, mounted in metal box and them mounted an arm to the shaft and a clamp to the box for the cable, works great.  I tried a throttle solenoid but those Wisconsins required alot of tension with the govenor spring.  Also a solenoid always required it to be powered up when the trottle was up, with the gear motor hit the switch to throgttle up and release, want to throttle down hit the switch the other way and throttle down.  New gearmotor was only $18 or $19 bucks.  I also used the same thing to throttle up and down the new Briggs also.  Though I would passs this along incase you wanted remote throttle capabilities.

[D._Frederick]

The guy at are local machine shop would arc weld nuts to the broken off (head bolts) stud bolts.  The heat would loosen them up and the air driven impact wrench would back the stud out.

Another problem with the Wisconsin engine is the aluminum heads strip-out the spark plug threads.

The biggest problem with the Wisconsin engines is damage from over heating caused by the cooling air flow being blocked. Mice building nests has killed a many Wisconsins.

[Modat22]

The guy at are local machine shop would arc weld nuts to the broken off (head bolts) stud bolts.  The heat would loosen them up and the air driven impact wrench would back the stud out.

Another problem with the Wisconsin engine is the aluminum heads strip-out the spark plug threads.

The biggest problem with the Wisconsin engines is damage from over heating caused by the cooling air flow being blocked. Mice building nests has killed a many Wisconsins.

No aluminum on this one, its completly cast iron

[Modat22]

Little update.

Going over budget. (of course)

set of 8 valves = 68.56

complete gasket set = 50.80

ring set = 66.39

valve seat inserts = 28.88

214.63 total plus shipping ordered today.

Now I'm trying to see if I can rent a valve seat grinder since the seats will be new and not have a seat angle already started if I can't rent one then I can add an additional 90.00 for a machine shop to do them for me.

[Modat22]

update for today. Well I have me new valve seats installed, cut, valves ground and installed.

I began installing all pistons and found that the last piston was was mashed, at one point in its life something got between the piston and head. The piston is unusable so I now have to order a new one.

SO I guess its gonna be taking up my woodworking table for another week and a half. :-[

[highpockets]

Modatt22,

Where are you getting the parts for the Wisconsin?  I have a 4 cylinder that has a rod or something knocking in it.  I haven't found anyone around Shreveport that handles the parts. 

CF,

I was glad to hear about the gearmotor throttle. I just put an electric throttle on a 20 h.p. Honda. I had a solenoid off a Kaboto diesel. It seems to work ok but had I thought about the gearmotor, I'd probably gone that route.  Good idea.

[Minnesota_boy]

Before you order that rod and tear down the engine for an expensive overhaul, pull the heads and check for a piece of carbon stuck to the head or piston that makes contact with the piston and head during the stroke.  It might save you some $$$.  It the head and piston look clean, then the rod is the next step.

[Modat22]

I'm ordering all parts from northwest machine in NY. I don't have the phone number at home I keep it at work. I'll post it tomorrow.

A new piston costs around 22 bucks plus shipping, not sure on the cost of a rod all mine are ok and within specs.

[highpockets]

I am sure that I'll be looking for parts sometime. My friend has 2 of the V4 Wisconsins. One is one stump grinder and supposedly started knocking. He bought another one that is supposed to have run in recent years. We'll see.  I have another friend that has one that was running an oilfield pumping unit. I think it only needs a distributor.  The last one of these types of engines I had any dealing with was on a hay bailer back in about 1961.  Does anyone have a manual of these or a 2 cylinder TJD Wisconsin??

[Modat22]

Don't give up on those V4's highpockets, all parts can be bought for a reasonable price. My motor was made in 1952 and I found every part for sale.



One head installed and torqued down to 22 ft lbs



aren't those valves purdy? too bad I can't put the missing piston in yet.



I didn't nitice at first but this piston was mashed. Look at the top ring groove, note the bend on the piston and curve in the first ring. Thats why the rings broke.



A few of the rings that came out of the motor, I didn't break these getting em off.



I'm really starting to like this machine, I just wish I had an extra 1000.00 for tools for it.

thats all till next paycheck erm. week or so

[Fred]

Where can a person find info on these V4's I have one that runs very good and fixin to get another..
                                          Thanks Fred

[Modat22]

I buy manuals from ebay on the old wisconsin engines, I like them even though they are so bloody heavy.

If you need parts the best source I've found so far is

Northeast machine & motor supply in NY
1-800-888-3760

Ask for Kevin

[twostroke_blood]

What a great thread.  My son just purchased a DVD on rebuilding a motor, we watched it together, and it makes for good conversation.  Thanks for the great pictures.  Have you ever considered writing a book on the subject, or making a video?  Just a thought.

[Modat22]

Thanks for the complement, I always loved rebuilding machinery of all sorts especially larger engines, only problem was my dad. He was a mechanic and wouldn't allow me to go into the mechanics field.

Honestly I could never write a book, my vocabulary is awful, my spelling is awful and I have a tendency of skipping a few steps when I try to explain something.

Thanks again.

in 3 more weeks I hope to start sharing bandsaw head building photos and asking questions. I have questions now but if I start asking them I'll never start building.

[Modat22]

just wanted to finish this thread off.

Motor is done, running and finally off my wood working table. Yeee Haaa!!!!

[isassi]

If you search on E-bay, you can find manuals and parts galore...sometimes at a steal price. I have a VH4D and a VG4D and manuals and carb kits were really cheap.