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Is chainsaw safety mostly an attitude?

Started by Billy_Bob, November 20, 2005, 09:57:39 PM

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Billy_Bob

It seems to me that people I know who have accidents while working with chainsaws have a certain attitude and something in common.

They are impatient.

They know everything there is to know about everything and if anyone tries to teach them something, they will not listen.

sawguy21

I agree to a point. A know it all attitude and complacency can hurt real bad. I do believe that a lot of accidents are also caused by inexperience and/or inadequate training. Most of my saw customers are acreage owners who have never touched one. I try to sell PPE and  either they don't want to spend the extra dollars or they don't see themselves as professionals who need it. Hopefully all they get is a good scare to realize their limitations.
old age and treachery will always overcome youth and enthusiasm

fishhuntcutwood

I think you can also add poorly maintained equipment to the list.  Dull chains, worn bars and rims, dirty or worn PPE all contribute to thrown chains, accidents and injurys.

Jeff
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Ron Scott

 


 
Not a good Attitude! Shouldn't be smoking? ;)
~Ron

Spike60

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Spike60

I do think it's mostly attitude. Focus might be a better word. Gotta remain aware that you're running a saw and paying attention to what your doing. Think about each cut. Which way will it want to close. Where is the bar tip. Is your footing secure. Are you reaching more than feels comfortable. 

Getting tired, gotta finish, it's starting to rain, and things like that work against you. Fact is that most of us here do not cut professionally. So pressures to get done and on to the next days work shouldn't have an impact on our thinking. Sometimes we do get a little warning sign, and you know it's time to put the saws in the truck, call it a day and have a beer. 
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donbj

, call it a day and have a beer.

Another good point is once the beer is done, leave the chainsaws alone. Another bad mix is ladders and chainsaws
I may be skinny but I'm a Husky guy

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rusticretreater

Attitude figures heavily in chainsaw safety.   I'm a he-man or I'm a dumb human.  A he-man with too much experience finally realizes he's a dumb human.  Its better to start from the dumb human side and work your way toward being a real wood cutter.  Most of us fall in the center where we are going both ways at the same time.  

I have been smart enough not to put myself in a real dangerous situation, but there are also many instances where I could have taken time to increase my safety.  I have cut my leg with a saw in the past(not badly) from going to a resting position too quickly and the chain on the saw was still moving.  I see the discoloration of my skin whenever I shower or use the bathroom and it has ingrained itself in my thinking.

I think it should be like learning to shoot or drive a car.  The chainsaw dealers should be heavily promoting safety with signs, free classes, etc.  My wood turning club just did a big demonstration on chain saw use and safety. We also got the local hardware store to offer a discount to our club members.  You can't protect everyone, but you can sure reduce the number of accidents
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YellowHammer

Attitude, knowledge, situational awareness, strength, and just downright intelligence all are factors.  

A person with a good attitude but dumb as a brick will not last long with any tool,  including a butter knife.  
YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

weimedog

A subject that needs more discussion for sure. To me there are a few common denominators that seem simple to articulate but really aren't. Attitude encompasses a lot of things as does situational awareness. Both obviously contribute. As does the all encompassing "Experience & Knowledge". But for me there are another couple of factors that play. Pride and the ACTUAL understanding of the physics in and around the work space.

A great example is this particular subject and just as important; the reaction to it:

Many hang around the base of a tree for a variety of reasons. Some have done that for decades and have learned to feel/see/react and avoid catastrophe.. often athletic enough to dodge the consequences, with a basic level understanding the physics involved. "Its big ( The tree ), or A limb can drop from a high place" type of understanding drives the process that seems like "safety". And some will argue to the ends of time to justify staying in that circle of risk. Often showing the rest of the world how good and skilled they are working in that place....this is pride. But physics is not on their side. To me this subject and the reactions to it really encompasses the real issue. Rationalizing being in the line of fire/risk/disaster. Willingly when it's not necessary or even smart. How do you train common sense? Moving away or positioning to minimize risk? Be it stance or setting up felling strategy even bucking a log pile? Understanding the physics is the definition of survival...then skills to minimize the risk after and experience to solidify those skills. Here in NYS training has been around for decades. The forestry world has been studied by universities like Paul Smiths to address this very question. Certification in NYS includes training and folks Like John Adler have made a life's goal to promote safety and practices that encompass the physics along with situational awareness coupled with basic techniques to minimize risk. Yet because of pride, often that gets lost in the general "online" forestry/chainsaw world. Here is his introduction. Worth a look.

Trigger felling controlled release - YouTube
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bluthum

I can't think of any inantimate object  that brings out the blinding effects of ego quicker than a chainsaw in those prone to it. 































Larry

Eons ago I took the Game of Logging course taught by Soren Erickson.  At the time I thought it cost a lot of money and time to complete.  I was completely wrong, it didn't cost, it paid me back many times over.

Ever split a nice tree because of poor technique?  Ever drop a tree in the wrong direction that took forever to pull out?  Those were things I did before GOL.  Best of all I haven't hurt myself or anybody else.  One incident, a limb fell and hit me in the head, cracked my hardhat.  Might not have been wearing the hardhat except I learned the importance of safety gear in Game of Logging.

I learned directional felling, tree control, production felling, sharpening, safety, bucking, and what to do when in trouble.  Game of Logging was the right course for me. 
Larry, making useful and beautiful things out of the most environmental friendly material on the planet.

We need to insure our customers understand the importance of our craft.

mudfarmer

Will chainsaw accidents get more frequent with the availability of low cost battery powered chainsaws? I feel like the barrier of entry of just -getting a chainsaw started- keeps a lot of not bright people from maiming themselves or others. sawguy21's comments about inexperienced people just refusing to buy ppe brought this to my mind.

I do know of one person with no experience that bought a battery saw, chaps, helmet and boots and seems scared of the saw which may be good.

Don P

People have come onto the jobsite many times and made comments on the 16" skilsaw and how dangerous it is. Generally sitting right there somewhere is a chainsaw with 18" of wicked teeth exposed, never draws the first comment. I've never understood that.

Greenhighlander

I think it is mostly attitude , even with training and/or experience.   I think it is also one of those things that if you do it enough , you can also become dangerously comfortable doing it. 
It reminds me a lot of my years on the floor of drilling riggs. You do not want to be so scared that you can't keep up , but you also do not want to get so comfortable that you lose your awareness.   
There is a sweet spot in there where you are getting it done , but also keeping yourself and your coworkers safe. 
I am always alone using my saws and it is not for a paycheck . I am never in a rush and I never have to work tired. I also wear full wrap chaps , boots , and helmet , and keep my gear in perfect working order.   

One of the sayings we had on the riggs was " Ain't nothing tough about not making it home to your family , because you wanted to play idiot "  

The thing about safety is you can do everything right and still have an accident happen.  Safety just helps limit those odds.   

barbender

I like to think of safety more in terms of risk management. If it was truly "safety first", I'd stay inside sitting on the couch. 
Too many irons in the fire

Spike60

Going to go against the grain here, and I expect some blowback. I'm by no means what you'd call a 100%er with the PPE. (and I have no idea where these underlines are coming from)

I vary my choice and mix of PPE according to conditions. I've cut 3 times this week in  the upper 80's. NO WAY I'm wearing chaps in that weather any more than I'd put on a pair of snow pants. Being that uncomfortable isn't safe in my book. 

Just cutting on a log pile. No limbing or swinging the saw around. And since there's nothing above my head, not going the hardhat route either. Eye and ear protection and that's it. Could something go wrong? Yup. I could get killed driving to the job site for one. 

But rigid group-think has never been a characteristic of mine and never will be. Not looking to criticize anyone else, but so often on these sites the complete submission to the holy grail of complete PPE all the time is a bit much. 

At least the underlines have stopped.  :)
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donbj

Going to go against the grain here, and I expect some blowback.

I'd say with knowledge, experience, common sense, and the ability to manage risk, you're good to go. Yes things can happen but situational awareness can go a long long way regarding safety

I may be skinny but I'm a Husky guy

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Tramp Bushler

  Cutting accidents , injuries and deaths happen when someone's brain stops being instantly present and in control of EVERYTHING that's going on ! 
 Overhead, all around and right in front of them ! All the guys I cut with that got killed . Did not take instantly seriously the danger right then and there and act accordingly. 
 Probably only 5% maybe 10% of accidents and fatalities were from things outside their control. And by that I mean , a surprise landslide or avalanche. Sudden microburst when it has been just breezy. Or a tree blowing up or folding up /breaking up in mid air or vertical. 
 Then there are always the widow Makers that could not be seen . 
 Getting cut is 99% the cutters fault. 
 Wether they knew or not. 
All the safety gear in the world won't help if anyone allows their mind to wander when hangin onto a powersaw !! 
 And I wear and strongly advocate ppe !
.
If your not wearing your hard hat when you need it. Well.

Stephen1

The 1st sentence says it all. 
  Cutting accidents , injuries and deaths happen when someone's brain stops being instantly present and in control of EVERYTHING that's going on ! 

I always start my saws with the break on, no drop starts, and I put the break on as soon I Finnish the cut, no walking around with a spinning chain, I wear my chaps if I am doing more than 1-2 cuts. Lots of times I am just trimming the end of a log sitting on the mll. 
I already have safety glasses on as I have bifocal safety glasses I put on when I start the day,  and I  have hearing protection when I am running the mill. 
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Al_Smith

I think I've seen it all .IMO the worst is starting a 90 plus cc saw by holding it with a cocked leg .I've seen those things kick back hard enough to knock you off balance .I'm a wuss ,they start on the ground unless they are a top handle in a tree .On those little darlins I've had a souped up stihl 200T ,in a   tree,above my head and nearly rip out my shoulder joint .Shouldn't have done it ,hurt for a week .

beenthere

Drop start mine, brake off. If I'm not cutting wood, I shut the saw off. 
My newer Stihls 362 and 261, don't need to flip a switch to "on". Just pull to start again. 
No idea what a "cocked leg" start might be. Have a pic Al ?
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rusticretreater

You take the saw and put the handle behind one knee and brace the bottom against your other leg, push outward on the handle and pull the start cord.  Like a drop pull but much more stable.
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Al_Smith

I had a McCulloch 6-10 ,70 cc with the timing advanced that would rev up to over 15,000 rpm .Small starter drum and  no decomp.It "walked the rope " .Lost my balance and nearly fell on it .Had it have started I could have easily lost a limb .Never again did I do that .

KEC

I approach using a chainsaw with the thought in mind that I really could get hurt or killed if I screw up. As a cousin told me, "you only get to make one fatal mistake".

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