iDRY Vacuum Kilns

Sponsors:

who has been in the military - any branch?

Started by lawyer_sawyer, November 20, 2005, 04:19:35 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

lawyer_sawyer

Thank you all for your answers

Ernie - that is my kind of question.  like it was said before JAG tends to be a 9-5 job so I might have some nights. or I have weekends and i think they said 30 business days a year paid vacation.

I did look into the Coast Guard.  I am waiting for a call.


thanks for the help and recommendations

Love the outdoors, chainsaws, my 300 win mag, my wife and my son but not exactly in that order.

lawyer_sawyer

Where did the "da" and "doze" come from. 
that was very interesting to go back and read how that was changed.

Love the outdoors, chainsaws, my 300 win mag, my wife and my son but not exactly in that order.

TexasTimbers

logman I nearly missed your post. I just googled "Fred's Place" not thinking I'd get whatever it was you were referring to but it came up at the top. Really cool site thanks for the heads up!
The oil is all in Texas, but the dipsticks are in D.C.

Kirk_Allen

Pigman, thanks for doing what others ran away from and the same to all the other vets out there who did the right thing! 

I have to say I was shocked to find out that when we deployed we would mostly stay in hotels.  Now I have done the tents city in Egypt (Operation Bright Star) in the middle of summer and you can have it.  I have been spoiled with my AF career.

Arky, I cant remember the name of the Hotel in Barbados but rest assured it was NICE.  We worked 12 on 12 off for three weeks and came home.  It was one big party for most of us as all we did was fix the planes and send them off every day and recover them. 

I recall one of my TDY's we were going to Guam for 6 months to chaise typhoons.  I was attached to the Weather Birds out of Keesler.  We broke in Sacramento on the way out for a bleed air duct.  They flew another plane out and the crew went on to Guam and told me to stay with the plane until it was fixed.  6 weeks later, all while staying in a Hilton hotel, the part came in and another crew was flown out COMMERCIAL to pick me up and the plane and off to Guam we went.  Stopped at Hickam in Hawaii and broke for electrical for 6 days.  Another 6 day vacation and we stayed on the military MWR hotel, which was on Wykeekee beach 8) 8)

Riles

You know, in 20 years of flying C-130s I don't think we ever managed to get a plane through Hawaii without it breaking down. Wonder what causes that?
Knowledge is good -- Faber College

Kirk_Allen

A sewing needle through a wire bundle seems to do it most of the time.

What outfit were you with?

I was on the 130s my whole career. 

pigman

KirK, I really feel sorry for you. ;) I didn't know you had it so bad in the AF. Stuck in hotel rooms with nothing to do. :( All of that traveling. :'( I got to camp in the woods, go hiking, look at the sunrise from mountain tops and other fun stuff. ;D
Things turn out best for people who make the best of how things turn out.

Riles

1st Special Operations Wing (renamed the 16th SOW when they lost the battle with the fighter pilots on "maintaining heritage"). Flew gunships with the 16th SOS and the 4th SOS. Missed Grenada but know a lot of the guys that flew it.
Knowledge is good -- Faber College

DanG

Quote from: Riles on November 28, 2005, 08:12:09 PM
Wonder what causes that?

Air currents.  We used to have such weather phenomena around a little place called Dalat.  Never did figger out what caused it, but just as sure as an aircraft went in there after about noon, the fog would get real bad in the mountains and we....er...they couldn't make it home. ??? ::)
"I don't feel like an old man.  I feel like a young man who has something wrong with him."  Dick Cavett
"Beat not thy sword into a plowshare, rather beat the sword of thine enemy into a plowshare."

Kirk_Allen

Riles, were you stationed at Egland AFB in FL? 

Tail #1809 was one our birds from Keesler with an Egland crew flying it that went down in Iran during the rescue attempt back in 1980. 

Pigman, rest assured I was not bored sitting in a hotel room.  I am an adventurous person.  While in Hawai we went hiking and surfing.  Managed to boogie board some 30 footers on the North Shore in December.  Thank God for my competitive swimming background otherwise I would have drown. 

While in Porta Rico we went diving every day after work.  While in Vegas we.....................well, what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas ;D

My best trip was in February of 83.  Landed in Anchorage at Elmendorf.  We actually stayed on base that time.  I went to MWR and ot a pair of snow shoes and went hicking up in the Chugack mountains. There were 4 of us and lets just say it was an adventureous day!   After that trip I knew I had to live there.  I was going to get out and move up there but managed to get orders to go in a re-enlistment deal.   8) 8)

Riles

Kirk, I was across town at Hurlburt from 85-92, 94-99, and 02-05. I know a couple of the Iran rescue guys too. I did El Salvador, Panama, Bosnia, Albania, Desert Shield (missed the Storm), and Afghanistan. Did a little deployed staff work for Iraq before retiring. Feels good to stay home for a while.
Knowledge is good -- Faber College

Kirk_Allen

Panama was an interesting venture.  I was with the 7th ACCS (Airborne Command and Control) I retired right after Desert Shield /Storm.  All we did for that one was backfill for Yakoto out of Elmendorf.

Hurlburt's the one.  Not sure why I was thinking Egland for the gunshiips. 

Ron Scott

ASY,

Marines are part of the Navy. The Marines are the Navy's amphibious force. 
~Ron

JimBuis

Lawyer-Sawyer,
In this thread, you have mentioned several times that you want to practice law or get experience practicing it.  Make certain that you know the difference between practicing the law on the "outside" [that's the civilian world] and practicing law in the military.  The JAG guys spend most of their time dealing with the UCMJ [Uniform Code of Military Justice] and military regulations NOT civilian laws.  My point is that such practice although useful is not directly applicable to a civilian practice.  After several years as a JAG, I would think you will still be the new kid in any civilian law office.

It is true that there are connections between the UCMJ and our American legal system.  However, it is also true that there are MANY things and MANY ways in which it is totally unremoved.  For example, under the UCMJ if a military member speaks disrespectfully to his commander he can be fined or worse.  In the civilian world, my boss can fire me but not fine me for being mouthy.  The differences may be subtle, but the connection with the law is hugely different.

Most of the people I know that have gone into the military in the legal or medical professions did so because the military paid their way through medical or law school.  They then had a military service obligation to pay the cost of tuition back.  I have not personally known anyone who was a JAG to get practice in the law.

At least if you are sitting in the back room of a big law firm doing research, you are researching the REAL law.  In the military you will learn the UCMJ and not the REAL law.

Just MHO.

Jim
Jim Buis                             Peterson 10" WPF swingmill

lawyer_sawyer

Hi Jim,

Thanks for the response.  I know the laws won't be the same but even different it does two things for me.

One is the likelihood of having courtroom experience.  With almost any firm that is likely not an option for a new hire in the time I would be in under my initial service committment.  In JAG they advertise and promote themselves as getting people into court as soon as possible.  What this would do is to give me hands on experience in the process of litigation.  with litigation would come all the necessary research and preparation that would go into any type of trial or advocacy situation.  so the experience in this respect is truly just a set of skills that can be shaped with practice and in four years I might have enough experience to move laterally into a litigation position in a firm.

The second reason I think it would help is the research and writing aspects.

before I go any further.  and no offense intended to other lawyers out there.  my last 2.5 years in law school have shown me two things.  1. lawyers are usually overpayed research people.  2. lawyers have a huge opinion about themselves.

in research and writing you get an understanding of form and format.  and the use of language in a legal setting.  This is not something I have had much experience with outside of class.  my summer work experience got put on hold to help with family problems and so I am a little behind the curve there.

In some ways a lot of lawyer don't know a lot of law.  what they have is the ability to find it and understand it.  It is the skills of litigating and research and writing that I am hoping to gain in.  the other you can get when you practice a different type of law.

I need more experience in my overcharged research service and acting abilities in court  :D

thank you all for your thoughts on this topic.

I have been hesitant to ask for prayers either here or the standing in the need of prayer thread but I feel God is calling me to at least pursue this opportunity.  He will let me know if it is right by either giving me the opportunity to serve our country or not but all prayers would be greatly appreciated for me to as best as I can let Him lead me where He wants me to be.  So I am asking for prayers for me to help discern my vocation and the faith and strength to pursue it whatever it is  :)
Love the outdoors, chainsaws, my 300 win mag, my wife and my son but not exactly in that order.

submarinesailor

Laywer-Sawer,

As a retired Command Senior Chief who went out of his way to bust as many dopers in the Navy as I could.  I have first hand experience with the need for lawyers who are not "Home Grow".  I personally would like to very strongly you enter the JAG corps.  Maybe you will be one of the few who think on their own and do not always follow the party line.

But that's just my opinion.

Bruce/sub sailor.

lawyer_sawyer

Hey Bruce,

Thanks for the encouragement.  If I get chosen I would like to say I would be a hardline person but I guess it depends on what they give me to do.  I agree that the military is a place that ought to be governed by rules and they ought to be upheld as strongly as possible.  Beyond that I have no experience in military thinking or life so I can't comment.  I can say I have never smoked dope and I think the prosecution of those who do is necessary to maintain order.  thanks again for the encouragement.

Jim
I want to add to my earlier answer if I could.
from everything I have heard I am not elegible for any type of loan repayment program.  I was also not able to get into a program that does pay back loans because if I get chosen it would be after the requisite period.  meaning I get to pay back all of my loans.
also it appears that JAG officers do not get signing bonuses. 
It pretty much comes down to I think it is a good opportunity.  I know the law doesn't directly translate out but I think the skills are the more important.  And as my wife and I discuss this more and more the 20+ years of service sounds like a good deal.  It is pretty much one day at a time.  I call today to finalize an interview with a Staff Judge Advocate over my Christmas break.

thanks Bruce and Jim for the encouragement and the food for thought

Jacob
Love the outdoors, chainsaws, my 300 win mag, my wife and my son but not exactly in that order.

JimBuis

Lawyer-Sawyer,
If you and your wife are in agreement, I'd go for it.  The Air Force was good to me overall.  I would continue to ask a million questions right up until the moment you are ready to sign.  By the way, I am a born again believer in Jesus Christ so if you don't mind that kind of praying, you've got it.

Before you decide to be a hardnose rule enforcer, you may want to get a taste of what the military life is like, especially for the enlisteds.  By the way, I was enlisted for 10 years.  Many of them are well accustomed to working 7 days a week 12 hours or so a day for months at a stretch with no break.  They are sometimes given a dirty deal by a hardnosed commanding officer.  You see the military regulations are so stringent and give the commander and many commisioned officers such tremendous authority over the enlisted force that it is possible to be disciplined for virtually nothing.

I was stationed in Cheyenne, Wyoming for several years.  One time during a blind blizzard, 70 mile an hour winds and horizontal snow or a white out as it is sometimes called, a friend of mine was walking down the street when the commander drove by in his staff car.  The snow was so blinding he did not recognize the car was our Commander's, so he did not salute.  Well.............our commander was one of those old hard nosed $?!@#, he stopped his car and chewed my friend out right there in the middle of that blizzard.  My friend was busted the next day.  Technically, the commander was right and was within his authority to do what he did.  However, it was unreasonable, demoralizing, and in the end hurt his command.  Very few of us who knew the details of what happened ever had any respect for him after that.  The military is everything about respect for authority.

Good luck,
Jim
Jim Buis                             Peterson 10" WPF swingmill

asy

Came across this website, thought you boys might be interested in it:

http://www.boatswainscall.com/

asy :D
Never interrupt your opponent while he's making a mistake.
There cannot be a crisis next week. ~My schedule is already full..

VA-Sawyer

LS,
I did not serve in the military, I was born into it.  Pop spent 26+ years in the Air Force ( '56-'83 ) . I spent most of my childhood on the other side of the Atlantic.  I would say that I enjoyed it pretty well for the most part. I think the only bad part of my 'upbringing' showed up in my early 20's.  When I was trying to get established on my own, I didn't have the personal connections with business members of the local community. The local people didn't know me as a fellow local. That would be true for most people that move away from where they grew up, but for them, there is someplace where they can go and feel 'at home' .  It was great having seen many parts of the world that most Americans never see.  My mother has always said the military life was good to her as well.   
I had friends that were Air Force brats and others that were Army brats.  I think the Air Force treated us better.  ;)

Good luck on your decision,
VA-Sawyer

lawyer_sawyer

Jim
thanks for the response and prayers.  I am personally Catholic but any prayers going to the almighty God I believe have value and thank you very much for them.
To clarify my position on dope.  I have seen it ruin some of my friends and the effects on their families.  Personally that is an issue I feel strongly about.  It is also the only real "bad" thing I feel strongly about.  lawschool has given me an interesting perspective on other crimes enough that I am capable to at least step back and think about it from both sides.  Dope though is kinda personal.  I don't think I would be a hardnose I just think if it is my power that it would most likely be the one thing I would be most proactive in prosecuting.  not sure if that makes sense but I am not a hardnose type of person most of the time.

I don't want to sound like I approve of rape and murder but I do know that if God permits me to serve my country that I have to think and act like and attorney and I could be on either side of the equation and as such I will have to act like an attorney whether because I might be a either defendant or prosecutor.  sorry that sounds confusing I just mean that dope is personal and the others aren't and I hope to be able to do whatever job to the best of my abilities.  whatever side I get put on.

VA-Sawyer
Thank you for your input.  I have a 14 month old son and it is definitely something that has crossed my mind as well as my wife's.  We just hope that it can go one step at a time.  If I can get past the boards and get in he would be 12 when I would have 10 years in.  If it is starting to be a bad thing for him and any other kids that might be around by then I would have to reevaluate that career choice.  Otherwise we are hoping that it is possible to help him build ties in West Michigan so that he can have a place he can call home.  My wife's family and my own all live there and depending on the situation we hopt all kids come to like it there.
thanks again

Jacob
Love the outdoors, chainsaws, my 300 win mag, my wife and my son but not exactly in that order.

VA-Sawyer

LS,

Let me try to explain this a little better. I always considered North Central Indiana to be home while growing up.  The problem was the people didn't think of me as a home town boy.  I have friends from high school ( Bitburg American HS in Germany ) living all over the USA. If I were to return to Bitburg, now, there isn't anyone there that would know me.  It was the strong personal contacts with members of a stationary community that  I wished for in my early adulthood.  This was the only real negitive about growing up as a brat.  There were a lot of other things that I felt to be positives.  I guess what I'm trying to say is it isn't just about your son feeling connections to a place, but that it is just as important for that place to feel connections to him. 
One thing I can say about getting ahead in this world. It isn't just about what you know...it's who you know too. Or, perhaps to be more accurate....who in a position of power or authority knows you and trusts you enough to give you a chance at something! 
VA-Sawyer

JimBuis

VA-Sawyer is right.  I have two kids.  Both were born in Cheyenne, Wyoming.  I am from Illinois.  My son, 30, and his family live in Gresham, Oregon.  My daughter, 27, and her family live in Illinois.  When they were growing up, we always returned to family in Illinois everytime we had the chance.  They both think of Illinois as home.  The military was good to us.  However, we made tremendous sacrifices.  My son was in three different high schools due to the many moves we went through.  There is no way for the government to compensate enough for that and no way to give your kids back what they lost out on.

Has anyone told you what it is like to have to leave your family for a year?  In 1979, I had to leave my family for a year on a remote tour or unaccompanied tour as it is called.  My son was 3 1/2, my daughter was 6 months old.  When I came back, my daughter did not even know who I was and wished I would leave again.  My kids overcame that, but I still have an emotional scar I will carry the rest of my life from that experience.
Jim Buis                             Peterson 10" WPF swingmill

VA-Sawyer

Jim,

We were a little luckier, I was 14 and my brother was 12 when dad had to spend a year in Tailand in '70. I knew where he was and why, but I was also concerned for his safety. It wasn't easy having my  dad ( and best friend ) gone during that year, but it did make me grow up quite a bit to be the 'acting ' man of the house. 

I don't want it to sound like I regreted being a brat. I loved living in Germany during my high school years. In fact, it was quite a rude adjustment when I returned to the States to attend Purdue University. I felt that most of my classmates didn't know squat about 'the real world'. All they wanted to do was drink beer and party. I was there to learn all I could to prepare myself for my future. ( I think that came from the military planning and desipline I was raised around )  I still tend to look at things differently from the folks around me.
No, I felt that being a brat was a real advantage till I got out and started my career in aviation. That was when I discovered the value of being known by the local business owners.  I figure it set me back 3 or 4 years compared to the 'local' boys.  I was able to eventully prove myself and overcome the problem.
VA-Sawyer

Thank You Sponsors!