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To set before or after sharpening

Started by GF, November 14, 2005, 10:04:29 AM

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GF

I have heard of both scenerios of sharpening and then setting and also setting and sharpening.  I have in the past sharpened then deburred and set, but as I thought about this some. By setting afterward this may knock the angle of the sharpening edge out a very little.   I am now setting 3-4 thousands over what I want and then sharpen them down to the set I prefer, this way the sharpening angle will remain true when completed.

I am curious to see which way you may sharpen and set your blades, and which works best for you.

Jeff

Quick question, whats your procedure for deburring?
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ely

i set first then resharpen. the first band i did i sharpened first then had to deburr it before i set it. that was a pain, i used a piece of tool steel from a lathe to deburr with. i am really new at the whole procedure but will say that i used the first resharpened band yesterday and it cut as smooth as glass, well not actually, but it was better than any factory band i have ever used.

Gilman

Dirty blades I grind then put into the setting frame.  I then scrape with a razor blade to remove pitch, deburr with a mill file then set.  Simonds uses a flat mill file for deburring their wide bands.

Clean blades I Set then grind.

For the best results I prefer Grind, Clean, Deburr, Set, and then a light grind.
WM LT70, WM 40 Super, WM  '89 40HD
Cat throwing champion 1996, 1997, 1999. (retired)

Brian_Rhoad

I set first then sharpen. I don't worry about the burr. It's gone after a few cuts in the log, from what I've seen.

Gipper

I set first, then sharpen.  Let the log take care of the burr!

gmmills

    I sharpen then set.   I set every other sharpening.  I overset a blade by a couple of thou and saw with it. Then sharpen it and still have enough set for it to cut well. Only lose 1-2 thou per sharpening. It works well for me and only have to set 1 to 2 blades per day. I have not seen a noticable difference in the speed or cut quality with either the  top angle of the tooth is square, set then sharpened, or the angle being bent slightly outward, sharpened then set.

  Deburring the blade is not a problem for me. It takes less than 1 min with a piece of scrap hardwood. The burr on the edge of the tooth is all that needs to be removed to accurately set the tooth. The gullet burr will be gone after a few cuts.
Custom sawing full-time since 2000. 
WM LT70D62 Remote with Accuset
Sawing since 1995

woodbowl

I set to about .026 then sharpen. I get about 3 to 5 sharpenings after that before I need to set again. Pine cuts OK with a higher set and gets better as it approaches .021 then goes the other way after that. If I know some hardwood is comming up, I will save the low set blades for it. They cut good.
Full time custom sawing at the customers site since 1995.  WoodMizer LT40 Super Hyd.

DouginUtah

 
What sequence does WoodMizer Resharp use?

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Kirk_Allen

WM cleans, inspects, sharpens, sets, sharpens. 

I set and then sharpen and have had NO PROBLEMS. .025-.026 set for my 10 degree blades, unless cutting WRC then I go to a .030 set and on my 9 degree blades I set to .021.  Once all are set I sharpen. 

GF

Jeff,
   I deburred with a price of hardwood and its a pain to do.  All technical information I had read said to sharpen the set, but in my opion the best option is to overset, sharpen, and check the set on random teeth with the burr away from the dial indicator to get an average.

Not sure what others use to remove the pitch from the blades, but I have been using Whestley's Bleach White tire cleaner you can get at Wal-Mart.  Spray it on let it set and wipe off with a rag.  I also use this on my circular saw blades also.

Larry

Quote from: woodbowl on November 14, 2005, 10:55:02 PM
I set to about .026 then sharpen. I get about 3 to 5 sharpenings after that before I need to set again. Pine cuts OK with a higher set and gets better as it approaches .021 then goes the other way after that. If I know some hardwood is comming up, I will save the low set blades for it. They cut good.

I'm disillusioned now.  All this time I have been thinking that I'm the only one that could possibly be that lazy. ;D :D ;D :D

I only cut hardwoods so max set is 24 thous (yes it leaves a lot of sawdust on the board) and as the set goes down it cuts better.  I don't even count anymore how many times I sharpen before I set...you can tell by how the band is cutting when it is time to set.  I'm sure it's 3 to 5 times...same as woodbowl.
Larry, making useful and beautiful things out of the most environmental friendly material on the planet.

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woodbowl

Quote from: Larry on November 15, 2005, 12:35:34 PM


I'm disillusioned now.  All this time I have been thinking that I'm the only one that could possibly be that lazy. ;D :D ;D :D

...you can tell by how the band is cutting when it is time to set. 

Your not lazy Larry. Your pretty smart. All this setting is not necessary. I wish someone had told me this when I first started. Here is another tip, if the set is higher than .019 or so, you can get away with unequal and random missets. Every tooth set does not have to be perfect above .019 that is. It is better of course to have every tooth at .021 on the money but I don't have time to split hairs, stop and back up for that uncooperating tooth. It can take a long time to set a dozen blades that way. I put a backstop on my setter with an adjustment and now I can set one side in about a minute and a half. I've been meaning to take some pics and put it on Bibby's sawmill mods topic.
Full time custom sawing at the customers site since 1995.  WoodMizer LT40 Super Hyd.

Stephen

For the first 10 years of milling I had sharpened, de-bured, and then set. After reading many post on this Forum about this very topic, I decided to try setting, then sharpening. I found the blades cut faster now, but don't cut as smooth, or cut as many feet of lumber (10-20% less?). The time difference in sharpening this way - I'll continue to set, then sharpen.

Stephen
P.S. I cut mostly spruce and other mixed softwood, very little hardwood.
1994 WoodMizer LT40G18. 69 acres mixed wood. 1952 ford tractor, Norse 290 winch, studed Norse ice chains. 45-66DT Fiat.

Fred

Thats the way im going to do it If I can figure out my sharpener . They didnt send instructions for  dummies . so im going to hafta find sombody smarter than me to help me set it up.
                              Fred
Baker 18M
Woodmaster 718 Planer/ molder

Tom

Those results are really strange to me, Stephen.

I've set first and sharpened afterward for years now to try to get myself to bed earlier in the evening and haven't noticed a detriment by the procedure at all.  Perhaps it may have to do with our types of equipment.  Most of what I cut are softwoods too.  Southern Yellow Pine and Cypress.  I do get into some really hard hardwoods like Live Oak sometimes but that is tough on anything.

Stephen

It may be an experience and practice thing. I certainly don't saw the amount of wood many people here do, and don't need to sharpen many blades.
I always found after de-burring (with a stick of hardwood), while setting the teeth I would have a half-dozen teeth with a burr still on the back that I would have to remove, then continue on.

Tom,
On another post one time you mentioned my sharpener may have a problem with the push-rod on the cam. I looked, but didn't find anything wrong. But that doesn't mean it is working right either.

My infrequent sawing experiences could be affecting my judgment about the blades working better in the 'good old days' :D
I'll try a few each way sometime just for fun. May this is the answer to the question!

Stephen
1994 WoodMizer LT40G18. 69 acres mixed wood. 1952 ford tractor, Norse 290 winch, studed Norse ice chains. 45-66DT Fiat.

logwalker

I sharpen first which on my Cook's leaves a nasty burr. I don't feel right leaving it on the tooth to break off in the cut and possibly dull the next couple of teeth so I lay the blade on a wood table and use a 4.5" grinder with a knotted flat steel brush to remove it. I grind going with the grain of the tooth and it takes less than a minute. I then set. After reading other posts I think I will try a light grind to finish :-\.
Let's all be careful out there tomorrow. Lt40hd, 22' Kenworth Flatbed rollback dump, MM45B Mitsubishi trackhoe, Clark5000lb Forklift, Kubota L2850 tractor

Tom

Stephen,

The burr on the tip of the tooth, I found, was fairly easy to get rid of.  It was the burr in the gullet that gave me the most problems.  The burr at the tip would show up for me just as you have mentioned it shows up for you.  I don't care how hard I tried, I never could get them all.

The burr in the gullet did two things that made my life difficult.  It held the band off of the back of the clamp so that the Gage was shy.  It also kept the clamp from closing all of the way and it would tilt.  Some people may clamp lower than I do and the burr doesn't affect them.   I clamp right at the gullet and sometimes a little above to make sure I'm bending the tooth rather than the body of the blade.

Don't be to quick to doubt your results.  You might have found something that works real good for you. :)

GF

Stephen,
     I also started to think about when you set and then sharpen and how this could cause not very smooth cuts.  The blade itself has different levelso of steel tension in them, I found this out by setting the teeth and some requireing additional pressure to set.  Now if this is the case when setting the tooth they all may not actually bend at the same exact spot it could be higher or lower.  Then when you sharpen even though you take off the same amount at each toot depending on where the tooth was actually bent into its set position could cause the cut to not be smooth.

   

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