Leaner

[David_c]

David_c is trying to drag someone out of harms way, even if its by the hair.

Yes exactly. That is all I was doing.

[Jeff]

I would comfortably be able to say that this tree can be taken down safely.

I can agree with that if you put it into the context that people knowledgeable and experienced in this type of situation are in control of it. I can't imagine that would be true if someone is seeking advice or input for this here. The knowledgeable experienced people already know how to deal with it.

out on a limb and greenefforts, please appreciate the fact that no one hear is trying to demean you. We all care immensely about not letting someone get hurt if our words can help prevent it. Everyone of us is certainly going to be concerned with this until we hear of the outcome. Hopefully you pay heed to the big warning stickers were trying to slap on everything within your site and take care of this tree in the safest manner possible.

[Robert R]

I used to work as a technologist in a hospital lab.  I was always intrigued that I could take apart a $500,00 piece of electronic equipment with about 6 miles of tiny tubing and connections, scatter it all out on the ground, find the clogged one, put it all back together all while having a doctor hollering about his stat test results and yet, when I took my brakes off my car to replace, I wound up having to hire a mechanic to come to my house and put it back together?   : :

The moral is expertise in one area is not necessarily transferred to another.  I, also, am a wannabe logger.  Part and parcel in that is wanting to be around long enough to learn to handle the hard stuff and recognizing when I need help and when I just need to buck up and do it.  As a wannabe, I wanna get help from the best when it is necessary and be there to learn from them when they do the deed.  Maybe your next broken leaner is the best one for you to tackle first, after you have seen first hand how to handle.  For what it is worth, we all just wannabe good help here to you guys.

[rebocardo]

I have taken down dangerous and hung trees with pole saws, cables, and chains.

One thing you have to consider is what happens if the tree further splits, rides/slides down a tree and basically comes off the stump while 30 feet in the air. You can't run that fast and once it starts there is no controlling it because it will be on the ground in less then 1-2 seconds.  With that ->split<- and that hung I would call someone that earns $90+ a hour to come get it with a crane and bucket. Even if it means taping off the area and building up a kitty for the job.

I have read enough about people getting killed by jackpots to not even consider that idea.

[greenefforts]

Sorry, i didn't mean to worry you mates.
I used extreme caution, hard hat/glasses/safety shield/chaps/work boots/gloves, safety lines to encourage falling in right direction and a spotter to watch and warn of any premature or unexpected movement.
I've cut many trees down before, and contracted about a dozen out on the ones that i didn't comfortable taking down myself.

In this case, the neighboring tree came down as planned,
but the leaner is still hanging on. 2/3rds of the trunk is snapped - hanging in mid-air and completely separated from the base. Bringing the neighboring tree down freed it up from an 8" branch that would have required the ash to roll when it fell. Only a couple of branch tips at the very top are helping keep it up, but it now should fall within a few feet of the direction it is leaning, because the biggest torsional force is gone. I'm not saving any of my money here, just helping out a neighbor who is going thru a rough time healthwise.

Today's weather forecast is for SW gusts up to 45 MPH- the direction it's leaning. The area is caution taped off, and i've got a stout line attached about 20 feet up (tied before i took out the neighboring crutch) and winch pressure adding more encouragement for a controlled direction of fall. Mother Nature will now finish the job she started- only a matter of time.

When cutting down trees,
always remember 2 of the most important rules of statics and dynamics:
1. Force = mass x acceleration
2. edited

PS: noone is too smart to ask for advice

[Duncan]

I agree with gillman for most points,

Just get yerself a high powered rifle and a case of ammunition and you could drop them trees pretty quick like and from a distance.  but i might substitute beer for the cola and it would be great fun.

kelly

[Bro. Noble]

 

[Modat22]

I'd chain a beaver to that tree and let it do the work. Or I'd call the demolitions people at your local army camp and tell them you have something they can blow up for training purposes.

[pigman]

I'd call the demolitions people at your local army camp and tell them you have something they can blow up for training purposes.

Several of us on the forum have some demolitions experience, but we don't like to talk about such things here in the open, might encourage other crazy people to do dangerous things. ;)

[RSteiner]

I agree with Jeff, that plan sounds all wrong. 

I had two a tangle to remove this summer involving two hemlocks.  A wind storm had blown over a large dead maple which broke the top off of a 50 foot hemlock about 30 feet up.  The tip of this broken top was resting in a couple of hemlocks behind it and the bottom of the broken top was resting on top of its broken trunk. 

At the same time another hemlock about the same size 10 feet away had been blown over into the group of hemlocks that the one with the broken top was part of.  The landowner had tried to cut the leaner hemlock and knock the broken top down.

What he managed to do was stand the leaner up right next to the hemlock with the broken top.  Now he had an 18" DBH tree standing upright next to a tree with a broken top.

This whole mess was located back in the woods on the edge of a pond right next to a log cabin his sons had built 20 years ago.  It would have been very difficult to get a piece of equipment back there. 

I attached a cable to the leaner and with a come-along pulled it over.  Now the tree with the broken top had to be cut.  I attached the cable to it 20 feet up notched it and made the back cut stopping before it would break.  I used the come-along to pull it over so I wouldn't be under the tree when the broken top came down. 

However, the broken top remained lodged in the two hemlocks behind the tree I cut.  The only option was climb one of the trees the top was lodged in an attach a rope to the broken piece.  Once on the ground one I was getting the rope ready to pull on the broken top and it let go.

It took only a fraction of a second for that piece to drop 25 feet to the ground.  Before I knew it I was almost knee deep in the pond, the reaction to run from danger didn't care about being wet.  Things can happen very fast even when you make what you think is the best plan, the unexpected can and does happen.

Don't ever position yourself under a potential falling object, gravity is faster than you can run.  I thought that top would take a good hard pull before it let go, but it only needed just a slight tug.

Greenefforts, re-think your plan if it isn't too late.

Randy

[beenthere]

From greenefforts last post, the tree the top of the broken ash was hung up in, is down. And there is a load pulling down on the ash now. Waiting for the chance the 'gale' force winds would take it all the way down. At least that is how I understood his last post. Hopefully we hear from him, again.

[Kevin]

2/3rds of the trunk is snapped - hanging in mid-air and completely separated from the base

cinch B above and below the fracture

[greenefforts]

An update on the leaner
Somehow it's still standing, despite the high winds, trunk snapped 2/3rds thru, and a 30 degree lean.
Proof of rule#2-one of Murphy's laws that's apparently not fit to post.


Another question:
What happens when this leaner freezes?
How much more brittle does a (dead for a year) ash get?
I searched for about an hour and couldn't find any data on wood properties versus moisture content or when frozen. When splitting firewood, there is a significant difference.

I also did a rough summary of the suggestions from only the postings that included a recommendation of what they might try (leaving off the what-not-to-do, and other cross-talk postings):

A. 2 suggested starting at the top and cutting/working down the trunk
B. 8 suggested pulling down with a rope or chain and/or pushing with a dozer or similar
C. 8 suggested various means of causing a stress riser at the weakest point of the fracture
    2 for gun shots, 2 for dynamite, 2 for beavers, 2 for pole saws

Since I don't have climbing equipment, and don't want a cherry picker coming in and destroying the neighbors back lawn - A. is out- at least until the ground freezes.

I've got the rope and small winch pulling, and don't have a bull dozer, I'll need to get a bigger winch and more chain for B to work by itself.

The stress riser concept seems like it could the proverbial final straw.

Gunshots, dynamite, or beavers wouldn't be well received by the neighbors, but the pole saw seems like a good idea. With a 16 foot reach on my hand pole saw, I can keep a safe distance behind a tree and at 90 degrees to the expected direction of fall, and saw a notch on the tensile side and see what happens. There is enough room to get the blade inside the crack and go at it. The blade might get destroyed when she snaps, but I'll finally get the leaner down safely.

[Furby]

A pool pole or two make a nice exstension pole for the manual pruners.
I've put two poles together before and the added the pruner and pole.
For best strength, don't extend them to the very end.
Also it get's VERY tiresome to use.

[chet]

Greenefforts,
I sent you an Instant Message.

[Kevin]

Got a call today and went to look at one this morning, it's very similar.
Split out at the trunk and hung up in the top except this tree is a spruce and it's hanging over a telephone cable in a back yard with a shed under it.

[solodan]

I say go for the guns and the beavers, buy a keg and invite the boys over, she'll come down.

[Out On A Limb]

Jeff B wrote:  Out On A Limb, I am going to go out on a limb and ask what you do for a living. Question is, your email address contains Out_On_A_Limb_LLC, makes me think that you are perhaps going to try to take this tree down for hire?

Jeff B,
As GreenEfforts mentioned above, we are engineers for the automotive industry.  By no means am I going near GreenEfforts' backyard...so no, I'm not taking this tree down.  As for my email address, it's an LLC that I created for some property that I am in the process of reforesting.  You can say that I'm going "Out on a Limb" in trying to get the seedlings to take...

GreenEfforts and I will keep you posted with regards to his leaner...  We're both enjoying everyone's comments and suggestions!...

[Billy_Bob]

I think the general idea is to find a way to get it down while at the same time being 100% sure you will be safe while doing so.

So doing things from a distance, using cables, using machinery, using a cherry picker, etc.