Is this oak doomed?

ohsoloco · November 06, 2005, 05:27:19 PM

I was wandering around up back the other day, and noticed some rot on a nice red oak tree, about 20" DBH. It still appears to be okay, just a few dead branches (no more than the other trees). I'm just wondering if I should cut this, or let it grow. The damage is only on one side of the trunk. Where the bark has fallen off, the sapwood is dead behind it. Not sure what those vertical scars are from ???

This next one is a shot from the other side:

Kevin · November 06, 2005, 05:40:22 PM

It'll start going punky if it's not already.
I'd make an appointment with the mill doctor and get some boards out it.

Timburr · November 06, 2005, 06:00:39 PM

Healed over lightning strike or skinning from a previous logging encounter.

Furby · November 06, 2005, 06:03:44 PM

Frost cracks.

ohsoloco · November 06, 2005, 07:19:16 PM

I was kinda thinking about frost cracks myself. There are a number of large reds that have the same kind of damage to the bole :( This is the only one I've seen so far that was getting punky (that spot in on the left of the trunk in the first picture is punky). I hate to take it down, but if it's only going to get worse... :-\ If this place was logged, it was a LONG time ago...no stumps or nuttin ;)

Ron Wenrich · November 06, 2005, 08:00:15 PM

My initial thought is that its a black oak. Not a big deal, but there usually is a little lower grade in it.

Damage seems to be consistent with logging damage. Stumps rot in about 20 years or so.

Another cause of damage could be a forest fire. They usually have the damage on the uphill side, since that's the side that burns hotter. but, usually that ends up being heartrot.

Time to make boards. Although if you really, really like the tree, you can keep it around for a few years. It won't get any better and any good growth will have to happen above the damaged area.

rebocardo · November 06, 2005, 09:09:41 PM

When I have cut down trees that looked like that, it was healed over damage and the wood under the ridges have been rotted/punky with (carpenter) ants traveling up the tree inside of them. What you can do is bang very hard on the tree with a mallet and see if ants come streaming down from the top.

ohsoloco · November 07, 2005, 11:20:17 AM

Ron, it could very well be a black oak, I haven't yet figured out the difference (except for pin oak). I found it interesting that the local mill will only grade black oak logs as veneer if they're at least 9'4"...of course, I found this out AFTER I sold those pin oaks :(

I'll snap some pictures of some of the other oaks with similar damage. The damage to this tree is on the north side of the trunk, which would be the side of the hill (opposite side from the last picture).

If this land was logged it was before the previous owner purchased the land, which was sometime in the late sixties.

Ron Wenrich · November 07, 2005, 05:41:31 PM

No matter how nice the pin oak, it'll never make veneer.

To ID black oak, take a knife and bore a hole into the bark. When you get to the inner bark, if its black oak, it'll be yellow. Only tree that has a yellow inner bark.

My dendrology teacher always had a good line. When asked how to tell ID a tree he would simply say, "It doesn't look like anything else" :D :D

Timburr · November 07, 2005, 06:10:54 PM

Furby, we've never experienced frost cracks 'cos of our maritime type climate.....we don't get the extremes of weather like you folks, except rain of course :(

The only frozen wood we've ever had was 10 winters ago, when the ice penetrated to abuot 2½" into the log.
Does frost split the timber along the grain?
The signs are there for us to be getting a sharp one this winter. Time will tell

ohsoloco · November 07, 2005, 09:30:24 PM

Ron, I'm assuming that black oak is a "category" for more than one species of tree, like the reds and whites ??? I can see that about the pin oaks, they look real nice from ten yards away though :D

I wandered up into the woods again this afternoon to snap a few pics, and the tree I took some pictures of actually looks like two trunks that grew together. Came out of the woods after just a few minutes and pulled 4 ticks off of my pants >:(

SkidrowJoe · November 11, 2005, 08:53:35 PM

Hey there neighbor,

Oaks are in the Fagaceae family, Quercus Genus, and then species epithet.

Oaks can be categorized as members of White Oak type or the Red oak type.

White oaks- Chestnut oak, Swamp White oak, etc

Red oaks-Black oak, Scarlet oak, Pin oak, etc.

I hope this kind of helps, if not will just have to meet up sometime. :D

ohsoloco · November 12, 2005, 04:55:15 PM

Skidrow, I'm curious (as always ;) ), are you the feller I milled that big spruce for ???

SkidrowJoe · November 13, 2005, 06:58:44 PM

No, just a Penn State Forester.

ohsoloco · November 13, 2005, 07:45:54 PM

That's funny Steve, I was certain that you were the same person giving where you said you lived, but I'm horrible with names, so I'm not that surprised either :D

It must be one of your neighbors then...lives almost right across from the elementary school that had a huge spruce taken down right along the road. I didn't mean feller-feller, but fellow, guy, person, dude, etc... ;)

nyforester · November 15, 2005, 11:49:39 PM

Looks to me like black oak.
I would bet that tree would survive for a long time if left alone.

Jeff · November 16, 2005, 07:18:25 AM

I agree, I have oak trees here on my property that I thought would probably die soon when I first looked at them. 25 years later those same trees are still alive and dont look much different. Not a whole lot bigger either. :-\

ohsoloco · November 16, 2005, 11:03:23 AM

Alright, now what to do :D I was planning on dropping this tree over Thanksgiving break, but now I'm second guessing :-\ Don't really want to cut it down (okay, part of me does :D ) but I'd hate to have the butt log completely rotted out and useless by the time it does die.

nyforester · November 16, 2005, 08:11:25 PM

Hi
Your original question was "is this tree doomed ?". My answer to this - yes it will die someday in the future, however I would bet it will be around for many moons until it actually dies. I have seen worse oak trees hang on for over 15 years. Will this tree ever become a better grade tree? Answer is NO. This tree has seen its best days. I am in the business of growing trees for landowners at their most optimal rate possible and growing the best grade and species possible. My impression is that this tree would be selected to be harvested, however many factors come in to play here such as stand density, species composition, and most importantly landowner goals and objectives. In my opinion, this tree will never be better than it is today. I hope this helps.
Pete

ohsoloco · November 16, 2005, 08:56:00 PM

Thanks for the responses. I realize it won't get any better, but I was wondering how quickly it would get worse ??? Gotta think about it some more, but am thinking it will either be a job for Thanksgiving break or Christmas break.

nyforester · November 16, 2005, 09:56:21 PM

If you do harvest it, please post a picture of the cut face. It will be educational.

Furby · November 16, 2005, 09:57:34 PM

Yeah, I'd like to see the pic as well.

ohsoloco · November 16, 2005, 10:19:03 PM

Yes, when it's cut it will be well documented...or at least documented somehow :D

SkidrowJoe · November 17, 2005, 05:43:52 PM

Hey are you that "feller" from Bellefont? :D

Take it anyway you want. ;D

nyforester · November 17, 2005, 08:46:20 PM

No, I am not from Bellefont, but I once knew a man from Nantucket !

ohsoloco · November 17, 2005, 09:05:42 PM

There once was a man from Bellefonte,
....
....
Can't think of anything that rhymes with Bellefonte :-\ :D

Steve, Saturday is supposed to be nice, so I should be milling after I replace the drive belt on the sawmill, and will probably crank up the firepit later in the evening. If you're free let me know and I'll PM you directions to the house.