Might be of interest if you dont like going to the Dealer to fix you car.

[Kirk_Allen]

While searching for an engine for my truck I came across this. 

http://www.righttorepair.org/

[moosehunter]

Kirk,
Owning an independant garage I am very familer with this. It is a Dang shame that the feds have to step in and tell the manufacturers to give us, er, make us pay for info to fix a car. You paid for the car, that price should include ANY info needed to fix the car. Next week or ten years from now!

( boy you got me riled up >:()
mh

[Kirk_Allen]

I know what you mean by riled up.  I try to do all my own work and when I came across this lets just say I was a little irate. 

What bothers me with these dealer ships is there insistance to NOT help you but instead tell you to bring the car in and THEY will look at it. They act as if NO ONE else is capable of repairing there stuff. 

[flip]

We, as a dealer, have to buy all the tools too.  We HAD to buy $15,000 in scan tools 2 years ago to work on Fords.  I't not really that one sided, the dealers have to buy all the tools and diagnostic info., it's not free to us either.  We will spend about $18,000 this year on software and special tools that we have to buy wether we use them or not, how fair is that.

We also have to spend thousands on training to be certified to work on them so if you want to call fair fair then those that benefit from the diagnostic abilities we have should also have to meet the same requirements to use that info.

The bottom line is if you want to stay in the game, you've got to spend the $$ wether you are a dealer or an indy.  Cuts into my profits cuts into their profits but that is the way it is for the time being.  I don't like it and neither do the customers, if I have to spend more on equipment some of that will be passed on.

For comparison purposes we are at $58/hr for diagnostic and repair, $50/hr for brakes and other maintenance.  We are the cheapest dealer in our area and the largest.  I hate being thought of as the bad guy, just another guy trying to earn a living... >:(  I really hate it when the government gets involved in anything-it's bad for all...

[Modat22]

I repair all my cars, generally I make the repair and unplug the computer for 15 seconds and so far it resets itself.

If all else fails and I know my car is fixed I take the "Check Engine" light out.

The only thing I can afford to let the dealer do is change my oil, which costs me around 19 bucks.

[Kirk_Allen]

Flip I understand what you deal with totally.  One of my close friends who was also my neigbor was a service tech for GM.  He is just as frustrated with the cost of what you have to buy, which like you said, may never get used.  Y

The problem lies with the fact that the car manufactures are going to do EVERYTHING they can to make money and since they dont own the dealerships, they can charge for stuff and regularly make changes that bring revenue to the table.

Maybe Captain could pipe up on this as he works for GM and may have some corporate insite?

[flip]

The REAL problem is that the indies. don't get much work if any after a customer buys a new car.  The dealers are doing a much better job at keeping the customers in their shop after the warranty expires.
Like was stated  in the web site most if not all TSBs and all recalls are available on the web, all the special tools are available from OTC or SPX.  The only info. that is not available is computer reprogramming information which has to do with emmissions and proprietarty info.  If some of this info. was available to the "public" certain engineering info. would be comprimised.  A lot of the reprograms out are not specifically for some problems, don't think I would want someone just rearranging my computer unless they were darn sure it was gonna fix it or at least not damage it.

The whole argument doesn't hold water.  There are just a peces of info. not available to the indies.  because of either federal emmissions reasons or proprietary secrecy.  Every thing else can be bought through normal channels or found for FREE on the internet.

Here's a good story of why this stuff sholdn't be available on the net....

Some idiot Mustang Cobra(mustang owners know EVERYTHING) owner struts into our service department with a piece of paper in his hand.  In a nut shell, SOME engines MAY exhibit a ticking noise at a certain RPM, to fix replace cylinder heads with part # yada yada yada.  We wasted an hour and a half looking for a tick noise that didn't exist and plus it was not even in the build date elegibility.  I tried to explain to this bone head why I COULDN"T give him new heads for a half hour.  He calls FORD whines and cries, we get an engineer in here and waste another 2 hours, still no problem, he goes away mad....and we're out over 3 1/2 hours of my technicians time because some moron saw something on the internet that in my opinion, should not have ever been there.

Sorry for the rant, just my humble opinion and thoughts.

Flip

[sawguy21]

I work for a lawn and garden dealership and that attitude is not restricted to Mustang owners, believe me.

[flip]

 :D :D :D :D

[Dan_Shade]

I know of that head tap thing on the cobras, there are a lot of idiots out there, but there is a lot of really good info out there in the mustang world, problem is for every smart guy, there are 500 idiots.  I think the lifter tapping thing is more of a cold startup issue.

I own a 99 cobra, we as 99 owners got a huge runaround from ford with several problems with our cars:  our cars were sold low on horsepower, took a lawsuit to get that fixed (well, the threat of one).  vibrations with the new IRS (indepdant rear suspension) they put in it.  I had to have my IRS replaced, because I had a 70mph vibration.  that being replaced, I had a 40mph vibration in 3rd gear.  I ended up swapping the IRS for a live axle, and sold the IRS.  I never looked back.

I've had a few "less than stellar" experiences with dealership warranty work.  I tried to haggle the warranty on my pickup when I bought it.  I told the guy take $2000 off, and I don't want the warranty ;D  didn't work. 

with OBDII, autozone will most of the time pull the code for you for free.