Sumtin's brewing in the basement...

[Paschale]

Got myself a batch of hard cider in the carboy!  Giddy up!

I found a cider mill that still doesn't pasteurize their cider, so I'm hoping it will just ferment the old fashioned way, without any added commercial yeast.  And the cool thing about this place is that they do some batches of cider with some cherries in the mix--so I bought two gallons of that.  Man...the mix is TASTY!  I added just a bit of malic acid to give it a little more zing, which the books I read recommended. 

We'll see how she does...I hope to have some in the bottles by Christmas!

BTW...I found a couple of books that were really informative.



Cider Book One




Cider Book Two

Neither of them has a huge variety of different recipes, but they both give in depth information about what you need to know to come up with hard cider, and gives you enough information to run and try different variation.  The second book has a lot of interesting historical information, whereas the first book is much more practical.  That one even includes information on making a still to make your own Apple Brandy!   smiley_hillbilly_tub_base

They also tell you how to make Apple Jack, which is done in the deepest part of winter.  You take hard cider, already fermented, then place it in a barrel.  In the morning, you crack through the ice to the "heart" of the cider, siphon off the liquid part into another barrel.  The next morning, you do the same thing...then the same thing, day after day, until there's nothing but liquid left over.  And apparently it packed a whollop in its day! 

[bitternut]

Boy, you bring back memories of my younger dumber days. Since I live in apple country there are quite a few people around who make hard cider. I remember my first experience with some of that apple jack. Stopped at a friends house early one Sunday morning before deer season to sight in our guns and afterwards his wife made breakfast for us all. We were sitting at the kitchen table and our host brought up a jug of some apple jack from the previous year. It tasted great and of course I drank a whole water glass full of the stuff. I remember feeling fine while sitting but when I got up from the table I fell right on the floor. Since I only lived a mile down the road they drove me home so they said. I don't remember much after hitting the floor. That stuff can sneak up on you real quick. I now know that apple jack is for sipping only. I am much older and wiser now.

[johncinquo]

My cider from last year is over 11% alcohol!  I laugh when the fellas who drink Miller lite all the time have one.  Ya tends to get a lil slap happy. 

Hey Pasc,  Did you try the mill on Lamoreaux, just East of M37.  Aseltines I think. 

I have the Berry wine in bottles now.  Strawberry, rasberry, cherry, blueberry.  Tastes a little like Kool-aid, with a lil kick.  Will have to let it sit through the winter to really see how its going to turn out. 

12 gallons of Peach wine in the carboys now.  Got a little carried away with that process, but the peaches were free for the taking.  I may have to try and make some brandy or something different with that.  Thats just entirely too much to try and bottle up. 

[Paschale]

Hi John,

I've never been to Aseltine's.  I'm thinking of checking them out.  I've seen and bought their stuff at Meijer's, and I'm not a huge fan.  I wonder if it's better at the source, so I'm going to check it out.  The unpasteurized stuff I got down south of K'zoo, at a place called Tree-Mendus orchard.  That's a fun place, since they have tons of heirloom apples.  I bought a few there to try, including one that was purportedly Thomas Jefferson's favorite apple, and Esponus Spitzenburg. 

I tried Hill Bros. Orchard--that's some tasty cider.  They have quite the operation, and I think primarily do commercial stuff.  But they have a neat little store there where you can buy their cider.  They're at 8158 Peach Ridge, NW.  There's a cider mill in Caledonia I'm going to be trying this weekend, and a cider mill down in Middleville that I'll take a look at on Sunday.  Apparently, they have a water driven cider mill.  http://www.bowensmills.com/

I found some really good cider off of 196, near South Haven, at the Dutch Farm Market--they've got big signs as you drive, so you can't miss it.  It's really quite good, and I think I might go down there and buy another five gallons to brew up a batch of hard apple/blueberry cider.

The best cider I've found anywhere near Grand Rapids though is at Kingma's Market on Plainfield in GR.  I knew at one time where they get their cider, but I've forgotten.  I think I'll ask them the next time I'm down there.

Oh, and bitternut, that apple jack--the reason it packs such a whollop is apparently because it hasn't been distilled.  It has all the alcohol, plus a bunch of other stuff in their that really sets you back.  Here's what that second book has to say about apple jack:

"The main drawback to applejack has been its legendary kick, which long ago earned it the affectionate nickname "essence of lockjaw."  Overimbibing results in a hangover of epic proportions, and in serious drinkers can even cause a condition known as apple palsy.   ;D  The thing that gives applejack its bad reputation isn't so much the alcohol it contains; although it can vary greatly, it is always lower than twice-distilled liqours like Calvados, whiskey, and many other spirits.  No, the problem is the way it is made, by freezing instead of distillation by heat.  The distillation process separates out the various components of a fermented liquid such as hard cider or sour mash, and the distiller's goal is to save the pure ethyl alcohol while discarding most of the other impurities, or "fractions," that are usually present in the first or last parts of the run of liquid from the still.  But applejack is made by freezing, and there is no similar separation of these "heads" and tails."  They all end up in the liquor that is contained in the core of the barrel.  In other words, as the ice on the outside of the barrel gets purer and clearer, the applejack not only becomes stronger in proof, but also more concentrated with fusel oils and other impurities.  A very small amount of these substances is necessary in liquour to give it character and flavor.  Too much of them, though, can prove very unhealthy."

That might be why your friends had to take you home.   ;)

[ohsoloco]

Paschale, are you putting anything else in with the apple cider to make hard cider?  I tried making some a few years ago from homemade cider.  Simply put five gallons of the stuff in a carboy and threw in some wine yeast.  That stuff was terrible  :P  Absolutely no body or flavor.

[beenthere]

ohsoloco
Did you put the vent tube into water so no air could get back into the cider?  By 'homemade cider', I assume it was not boiled first, and was fresh cider.
My father made several attempts at making 'jack' and most were not good (too easy to get 'mother' going or that it turns to vinegar), but there were a few successful batches. And I only remember the heacaches the next day. It would drink easy, and be much like cider, but have the alcohol aroma. When it hits, look out.  ;D

[ohsoloco]

Yes, it was fresh, homemade cider (not pastureized).  I had an air lock on the top of the carboy as well.  My first attempt at making anything was just throwing a bunch of cider, grapes, and sugar in a large cut-off barrel (the one we're now making sauerkraut in) for a few days then putting it in carboys w/airlocks.  Man was that stuff sweeeeet (like kool-aid with a kick).  Cider alone just didn't turn out  :(

[Paschale]

Paschale, are you putting anything else in with the apple cider to make hard cider?  I tried making some a few years ago from homemade cider.  Simply put five gallons of the stuff in a carboy and threw in some wine yeast.  That stuff was terrible  :P  Absolutely no body or flavor.

Well, I checked the sugar content, and it looks good to go.  There's enough sugar in there for the yeast to gnaw on something.  Two of the five gallons are "cherry cider," with some cherries that went into the pressing of the cider.  I have an airlock on the thing, and I sterilized everything really well too.  Oh...and I did add some malic acid.  I'll reevaluate it when I rack the first batch into the secondary fermentation.  I might add a little more sweet cider at that time, and when I bottle it, I plan on adding some sugar to cause some natural carbonation.  I've read of adding concentrated apple juice too as a sweetener to give it more flavor and body.  I guess for my first batch, it's as much as anything an experiment.  I'm willing to gamble five gallons of cider to see what happens...and if I get some vinegar out of it, that's not such a bad thing either.

[Paschale]

I woke up this morning to a nice, steady plop-plop in the carboy.   ;D  It's cool knowing that some wild yeast from just south of Kalamazoo is making this puppy go, and not some store bought yeast.   ;D  I just hope it doesn't turn into vinegar!   :

[johncinquo]

If you use fresh fruit, or even some ciders that have not been pasturized or purified, then you can have it turn to vinegar or spoil easily.  Adding Cambden tablets or powder will kill off unwanted germs, crud, whatever and help to keep it from turning.  It kills off the natural yeast as well though.  I add the cambden, then let it sit several days before adding the new yeast. 

Natural yeast can be cool, but that has its drawbacks.  First, it shows that you have naturally occouring growths in there, so if natural yeast is present, then so can be natural funk.   Also, natural yeast has a very low tolerance for alcohol.  The alcohol basicly kills off your yeast, and stops further fermentation.  I prefer to use a champagne yeast for cider and some wines, as it has a higher tolerance, and can be saved out of the bottom of the fermentor and used again if you want to, for other batches or experiments. 

We should all get together for a professional sampling over the winter!

[Paschale]

Hi John,

I had read that about the natural yeasts, that they can be a little intolerant of alcohol.  I'm hoping to beat the odds, and I just gotta give it a go the old fashioned way at least once.  I just found another place down near Kalamazoo that doesn't pasteurize their cider, so I think I might try another batch, but this one just with straight cider and none of the cherry cider in their.  I'm thinking of doing a third batch, using a champagne yeast too, though I'd need to get another carboy!  But with this sort of thing, I'd hate to have to wait until next year to find out if my first two batches were failure, and have nothing to show for a fall of brewing.  Though there's always beer to be made too... ;D

I like your idea of a winter tasting!     I'd enjoy trying those fruit wines of yours too...

[SwampDonkey]

A co-worker from a past job is big in the wine making process. He made some apple wine one time and tossed out the apples once they were done work'n. The dog got into the fermented apples and well.....you can take it from there. :D  He also tried rubarb wine with success. We found some old patch of rubarb growing up through the alders on an old homestead. He took some for wine and dug some up to transplant in his yard. They grow quite large when threatened by shade.

Wish you success with your cider Paschale.

[Buzz-sawyer]

Paschale
Last fall I used bread yeast for my apple jack......I think I gave ya the recipe?......Any way it WAS good ...but I still want to try the chapagne yeast.

[Paschale]

Paschale
Last fall I used bread yeast for my apple jack......I think I gave ya the recipe?......Any way it WAS good ...but I still want to try the chapagne yeast.

You sure did give me the recipe Buzz...but I can't find the DanG thing anywhere.   :  I think yours had raisins in it.  I'd like to try that recipe, and do what you're thinking of doing and try some champagne yeast.  I'm planning on making up a couple more batches, actually...I want to experiment this year with different recipes/approaches and see how they turn out.  Otherwise, you're waiting from year to year to try different things.  I plan on popping a couple vanilla beans and a few cinnamon sticks in one batch too.     You got anything brewing right now yourself there buzz?

[Modat22]

My grandpa (rest his soul) used to make something called apple scrumpy. He'd take cider anc freeze it on the porch and drain off what didn't freeze.

That stuff would remove paint from the walls, remove unwanted nose hair and pickle eggs.

[Buzz-sawyer]

Pascale
I am getting ready for a big batch......Well, to me!
I aquired a 5 gallon water cooler bottle and have "Saved up" long neck bottles..so soon ............ :D

[Paschale]

Hey Buzz,

I'm wondering if you can post that recipe you gave me...one more time.   :  I've combed my emails and in my computer, and I can't find it anywhere.  Can you post that recipe here in the forum, so I won't lose it?   :  Sorry I lost it...  I've got two batches going right now with natural yeast, and now I want to do one with an actual recipe.  I think I'm actually going to end up doing five batches this fall.   8)  I'm going to experiment a little bit this year--my thought was if I just do one batch a year, it'd take me five years to learn what I'll learn this year.

So this is my list so far:

1. Natural yeast cider, with two gallons of "cherry" cider included.
2. Natural yeast cider, 100% apple
3. Buzz's recipe.   ;D
4. A recipe for sparkling cider I found in a book.
5. Another batch where I experiment, either with adding some cinnamon sticks, or else some other dried fruit, such as blueberries or elderberries, or possibly a vanilla bean, or perhaps a mix.

I'm gonna have more than I know what to do with...so I think I'll make some honest to goodness apple jack this winter too, freezing the stuff until it won't freeze anymore.   ;D

[Tom]

Y'all remember that there is a place in the knowledge base for Recipes.

[sawguy21]

My grandpa (rest his soul) used to make something called apple scrumpy. He'd take cider anc freeze it on the porch and drain off what didn't freeze.

That stuff would remove paint from the walls, remove unwanted nose hair and pickle eggs.

:D :D :D :D A man I worked for would do that with homemade wine if he got a bad batch or one he didn't particularily like. He would use the stuff to fortify his good ones. He made a great pear wine but I sure could not drink much in one sitting. It had a mean kick.

[Paschale]

Tom, you're right!  I always forget about the Knowledge Base... :

If Buzz'll post his cider recipe, I'll be sure to post it on over there. 

[UNCLEBUCK]

Paschale I bet you could make a still out of one of your  old trombones that you dont use no more ?  Paschale"s got hooch ! :D

[sawguy21]

Paschale I bet you could make a still out of one of your  old trombones that you dont use no more ?  Paschale"s got hooch ! :D

:D :D :D :D :D :D What you been quaffing to come up with that?

[Paschale]

Paschale I bet you could make a still out of one of your  old trombones that you dont use no more ?  Paschale"s got hooch ! :D

yeah, maybe...but I wouldn't wanna drink anything that came through any of MY old trombone tubing.  I'm not that adventurous!   ;D

[SwampDonkey]

Nothing to do with your trombone Paschale, but I was talking with the fuel guy this season when he delivered my oil, second trip. He had to come back a second time as when he was here the first time he could only pump 20 litres in before the whistle shut off. Anyway, he was saying he's been bitten several times this season my spiders in the pipes. When he pumps fuel into your tank the other pipe expells air and out pops the spider on his arm. Anyway, that was his excuse for not filling my tank the first time, he was suggesting there was a spider in the pipe blocking the air. Now I might not know everything in the world, no even close, but I don't know of any spider species in NB that would be 2 inches across. 

Don't inhale any spiders from your trombone Paschale! :D :D :D :D

[Paschale]

Well, tonight I sampled some of the hard cider.   8)

I have two batches sitting in the carboy, one that's part cherry and apple, the other straight up apple, both using natural yeasts.  They're both pretty tasty, especially the pure apple one.  I think I'm getting close to bottling, and I may experiment with adding a little priming sugar to see if there's still some active yeast.  I can imagine in a month or two popping open a cold bottle of home brewed hard cider--can't wait!   8)

I just mixed some for a third batch--this one mixed with a gallon of pure raspberry juice.  There's a place that's just wrapping up pressing their cider, since they keep their apples in cold storage.  When I was there, they mentioned to me that they also press raspberry juice, and that they had some in the freezer.  Well, I thought this would be the perfect thing to try!  I'm going to use a champagne yeast in this one, so hopefully I'll be guaranteed a sparkling cider. 

Anyone else tried some of their hard cider yet?  And how about tapping into some canned goods from this summer?  Any reminders of warmer and sunnier days sure is a welcome addition to these cloudy days!

[Paschale]

Well, last night I spent bottling my first batch of hard cider.   8)  Did a test run of one bottle a couple of weeks ago, and MAN was it TASTY!!!!!!  Giddy up!

I've read that the best hard cider comes from natural yeast, and that's what this batch was.  Pretty amazing stuff.  I'm hoping that it will carbonate a little bit by the time I take it home for Easter.  I just love the fact that the natural yeast just lying around on these apples turned that cider into a very tasty brew. 

I'm going to try my hand using some of the leftovers of that cider, which still has some active yeast cultures, and make a sourdough starter.  If all goes well, on Easter, we'll be drinking some of the hard cider, alongside some bread made from the same yeast.   8)

[SwampDonkey]

I love sour dough bread.  8)

[johnjbc]

My Boss a few years back got the idea to brew up a batch. When it was ready he got a case of returnable beer bottles and a caper. He filled the bottles almost full and added a little sugar and pressed the caps on. He had been checking the temperature in his basement and it was just right for aging .  He had been giving us a report  8)  every morning of how it was coming along. After about a week he came in looking tired.  They were watching TV and  Boom there was an explosion  in the basement. They couldn't go down in the basement for fear of another bottle blowing  up and spraying glass at them. They spent the next 3 weeks counting explosions. Couldn't go away from home because they were counting the explosions to know when it was safe to go down and clean up the mess. That was his last and only attempt at brewing. smiley_hollywood_cool
Be sure you don't put in to much sugar it ferments into CO2 and builds up pressure.

[ohsoloco]

It doesn't take much sugar to prime something for carbonation.  I think it's only around 3/4 of a cup for 5 gallons of brew (I'm just guessing, it's been a while since I brewed anything). 

Paschale, maybe using packaged yeast was my problem, and that's why I ended up with such a flat tasting cider  :(    I still have to get around to bottling my raspberry wine...got a gallon aging in the basement that I made from fresh picked wild raspberries back in July  8)

[sawguy21]

Johnjbc, I remember  friend of my dad's doing that. DanG near caused a divorce ;D

[Paschale]

To avoid exploding bottles  , what I do, is run a test single bottle, and instead of adding priming sugar to the entire carboy, I just add a 1/2 tsp per 12 oz. bottle, which is what the books I've read suggested.  I found in this case, it was just right, though it didn't carbonate the cider fully.  It just had a pleasant little pop to it.  I don't have to worry about exploding bottles too much with the natural yeast, since they don't have a high tolerance to alcohol--they'll die off on their own between 6-7%.

I have two more batches ready to bottle.  When I did the test run on my cherry/apple cider, it was way too dry.  I'm going to add a whole teaspoon on my second test run, and see what happens.  Since this uses natural yeast too, it should just carbonate a little bit, and then sweeten the whole thing up.  I may have to finally go even a little higher than a tsp to make it only a semi dry.

As to the exploding bottles, there are ways to take care of that.  What I've always thought I'd do in that case is to just go down there, group all of those bottles together, and place a metal trash can on top.  It's a bomb shelter!   ;D

The other thing you can do, if you get a bottle or two randomly exploding, and want to keep them, is pasteurize the bottles by placing them in a vat of boiling water just long enough to get the insides up to around 120 degrees or so, which will then kill the yeast and stop the fermentation process.  I've read in several books that this is an accepted method of controlling fermentation too.  Or place them in the freezer for about an hour, cool things down, and then keep them refrigerated at a very cold temperature until you want to drink them.  Both temperature extremes slow things down.  Only problem is that the freezing/cooling thing won't kill the yeast.

What I'd do in that case is grab a cooler full of ice, bring it downstairs, chuck all of those bottles in the cooler, then after several hours, get my biggest pot on the stove boiling away, then drop in those bottles in batches.  I'd pull one out after about 15 minutes, pop it open, test the temp to see if it's reached the temperature that will kill the yeast, and then you're good to go--saved the cider, and prevented anymore messes.   8)

ohsoloco:  I'll look forward to hearing about that raspberry wine!  It's cool you made that yourself from wild raspberries!   8)

When you say it was a flat cider, do you mean flat tasting, or not carbonated?  Also, what kind of packaged yeast did you use?  I have a batch going of commercial champagne yeast, mixed in with a cider mixture that has a gallon of raspberry juice in it.  I'm hoping it turns out OK for me. 

[SwampDonkey]

Wish I new somebody that could make me some home made wine. pout  :'(

[ohsoloco]

Paschale....yeah, by flat I mean flat tasting   :(  I simply put five gallons of freshly pressed cider in a carboy and threw in some yeast (I'm pretty sure I used champagne yeast).  The stuff fermented like the dickens, but by the time it was done it was the color of pee...and probably tasted about he same  :-\  It's still in bottles in my parent's basement, I never threw it out yet  :D

All of my friends have been bugging me to get that raspberry wine bottled.  I'll only get five bottles out of my gallon, so I still have to put one away for a few years to age well  ;D

Swampdonkey, come on down the first week of July and you can help me pick wild raspberries, they're growing all over my place.  If we pick enough I'll just mail you a case a few months later  ;D  The hardest part of making it is actually picking the raspberries.  Most recipies call for 3-5 pounds of fruit per gallon....it takes a long time to pick that many.  I'd still love to get enough for a five gallon batch, but none of my friends that love the wine are around when it's pickin' time  :

[SwampDonkey]

It's easier to pick'm outta the garden. No brush piles and bigger berries. ;D I picked a washtub full last summer.  I'm going to get a juicer and try it on some frozen ones I have still in the fridge.

[ohsoloco]

You have the hard part taken care of, Swampdonkey  :D  All you really need is a carboy, airlock, siphon hose, and a plastic fermentation bucket and you'd be pretty much set to make wine    The local grocery store bakery is a great place to get plastic food grade buckets with sealable lids...their donut glaze and the like are shipped in those. 

I rarely mess with specific gravity or anything like that.  As long as it tastes good  ;)

[Paschale]

I rarely mess with specific gravity or anything like that.  As long as it tastes good  ;)

I agree, though it's nice to know what kind of kick she has after the fact.

ohsoloco, I think you should try those bottles--who knows, maybe they've really mellowed out into a nice cider.   8)  Mine turned out to be the color of a cloudy chardonay--that might be some people's definition of the color of something you don't wanna drink.   ;D

[SwampDonkey]

If I pester you fellas long enough, something might come my way ??? :D :D

I'll admit that I'm no alcoholic beverage guy, but I'll try anything that had some juice in the ingredients, at least once. Just keep the pets away from the brew.  :D

[Furby]

I got something for ya SD, it's been in my Grandma's basement since the 70s I belive. ;D

[Paschale]

I got something for ya SD, it's been in my Grandma's basement since the 70s I belive. ;D

What's the "something" made from there, Furb?   ???

[SwampDonkey]

pass  :

[Furby]

Gonna havta ask as my memory fails me. :-\