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Want to move to a farm... LOTS of questions... ???

Started by asy, October 16, 2005, 09:00:56 AM

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asy

Well...

The time has come,' the Walrus said, 'To talk of many things:
Of shoes - and ships - and sealing-wax -Of cabbages - and kings -
And why the sea is boiling hot - And whether pigs have wings.'

Now, we are looking at (finally) moving to a farm, and are looking for one as we speak. 

Being as this is hopefully something that will happen within the next 6-12 months, I have LOTS of questions.   :-\

My (initial) questions are:

What size land is best?
(How many acres do I need to be self reliant. Not counting for Timber, just the house and farmyard bits)

What animals should I keep? And how many?
(I know Chooks...  but do I want a milk cow, how much work are they really, etc)

What crops should I grow for home use?
What do you recommend we grow, for year round self reliance.

Do I need a gun? If so, what type?
(Keep in mind I have never shot anything, also, what do I need to do to learn how to use it and keep safe).

What machinery do I need to run a Home Farm,
as in, not the Timber/agriculture side of things, just around the house?

What else do I need to know/do?

Thanks in advance for all your wisdom...

asy :D
Never interrupt your opponent while he's making a mistake.
There cannot be a crisis next week. ~My schedule is already full..

Texas Ranger

Land size.  As much as you can afford and pay taxes on.  They ain't making any more.

Animals.  What can you effectively raise?  Chickens, rabbits, dogs, cows are tough, lot of long hours in morning and evenings just keeping the milk machine functioning.  Horses?  The land will provide snakes, lizards, rats, mice and the Aussie equivalent of varmints.

Crops.  What can you raise to feed  yourself?  Aussie thing again.

Guns.  Aussie laws.  Shotgun and .22 rimfire for varmints, at least.

Machinery.  What ever it takes to manage the land.  Tractor (multipurpose, till the earth and move the logs).  Small saw mill?  All the hand tools you can possibly dream of.

You will find out what you need and what you don't know for the rest of your life on a farm.
The Ranger, home of Texas Forestry

GHRoberts

asy ---

I think you need to think in terms of square miles not acres in your area.

When I was younger,  I think we could have lived off of

5 acres

a few dairy goats - milk and meat

a herd of chickens - eggs and meat

2 acres of garden (matches the manure that the goats and chickens make)

bought 100-200 bales of hay and a lot of corn to feed the livestock. It is cheaper than keeping machinery.


Radar67

Asy, Check out  www.motherearthnews.com there are alot of good articles that would help you out. Everything from farming crops, animal husbandry, building (cordwood, strawbale, etc), and altenative energy. I've been a subscriber (magazine) for over 20 years and always find something useful. (The web site is free)

Stew
"A man's time is the most valuable gift he can give another." TOM

If he can cling to his Blackberry, I can cling to my guns... Me

This will kill you, that will kill you, heck...life will kill you, but you got to live it!

"The man who can comprehend the why, can create the how." SFC J

sawguy21

*You will find out what you need and what you don't know for the rest of your life on a farm".  That's a fact. It will be a steep learning curve. Is there a farmer's organization or co-op in the area? This a great way to meet the locals and learn from them. What crops and livestock are being raised in the area and for what , personal consumption or sale? You will need tilling and harvest equipment for forage crops, feed handling equipment for livestock.  As TR said be prepared for long hours and hard work. It can be very rewarding but is not for the faint of heart. Good luck with it.
old age and treachery will always overcome youth and enthusiasm

WH_Conley

You will never work harder, longer hours for less MONEY.

The return is the peace and contentment that money can't buy.

Gives you a sense of satisfaction looking at what you have around you and thinking" I did that".

You are already getting some good advice and will get more, so I will just wish you good luck.
Bill

Minnesota_boy

You can subsist on very few acres if you have the right climate and are willing to work yourself to death.  The real question is, "Do you really want to live like that?"  It may be better to think about what would make you happy to do to decrease the amount of money needed to achieve your limited dependence on others.  Sometimes it is better to let people specialize and pay them for that education that they have gained than to try to learn it all yourself.
I eat a high-fiber diet.  Lots of sawdust!

leweee

Asy...talk to the old time farmers in your area...you will learn a lot from these oldtimers....what to do...why,,,and how often. ::)
just another beaver with a chainsaw &  it's never so bad that it couldn't get worse.

Bro. Noble

We started farming with 80 acres and still worked in town.  That was enough land to try various enterprises to see what we liked and what worked for us.  It was big enough to have a little 'elbow' room yet small enough to take care of.  The job in town gave us security untill we had a better idea of what we could a (and wanted) to do.

I would reccomend a 30-40 hp utility tractor.  I would pay the extra for power steering,  desil engine,  major manufacturer,  live power, and remote hydrolycs.

Everyone should have at least three or four guns and know how to use them reguardless of where they live (in my opinion).

If I had one gun it would be a Savage over under .22 magnum over a 20 gage Magnum.

If two one would be a .22 and the other a pump 12 gage shotgun.

Next I would add a medium sized high powered rifle like a 30-30 and then a revolver or two .22 or .38 special.

I would go from there as the need and desire led me ;D

The best help for a beginning farmer is a good neighbor who is experienced,  intelligent,  honest,  caring,  and patient.

After 40 years of farming,  we have too much land,  too much work,  not enough money,  about a dozen tractors,  not near enough guns (in my opinion---not my wife's)  and still havn't found a neighbor with all the desired qualities,  but caring and honest is OK :)
milking and logging and sawing and milking

Ianab

Hi Asy

A few thoughts...

What grows well in the area you are looking at buying? Is it suitable for growing vegetables or just grazing sheep? Crops will depend on climate and soil types. What are the locals growing already? This comes back to how much land you need. If you have good market garden ground you can grow a lot of veges on 5 acres. If you are going to graze sheep look for a couple of thousand ::) Are you looking at a hobby or a business or something in between?

Chooks of course - milking a cow is a tie - it HAS to be done. I dont know if it's worth the effort. A few pigs is an option, but dont make them pets, or if you do give them names like Bacon and Pork Chop. Goats for milking or meat? Beef cattle ? Sheep?

Crops - depends on your climate. Something that can be harvested and stored (potatoes etc? ) or else sold in season and use the cash to buy groceries in the off season.

Gun - A .22 rifle is handy for them pesky wabbits, putting down injured/sick animals, stray dogs etc. You dont really need anything  more.

Machinery - what are you farming?. We ran a 300 acre cattle grazing operation with a quad bike. Contracted in machinery for haymaking and track maintainance. If you are going to be planting crops then you will want a tractor with rotary hoe, front end loader etc. Size of the tractor depnds on the scale of you operation. Spray equipment for the weeds, doesn't matter where you are, there will be weeds  ::)

There's LOTS more you need to know of course, but that will depend on what sort of farm you are running..

Lots of work and stuff to learn, but very rewarding when you can make it work.

Ian
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

Patty

Asy, there are so many options that only you and yours can ultimately decide how much you want to work. We started with 3 acres, put in a small orchard of apple & cherry trees, and planted a huge garden. We had no idea how much work can go into a big garden!! Three acres also provided enough room to raise a few piggies (I fed them from a restaurant I owned), rabbits, chickens, geese, and ducks. Now we farm a 240 acre place. The amount of work that can go into a place is never ending and can be overwhelming. Don't let it get you down; I figure any progress we make is better than nothing. Throughout all this, we have both worked away from the farm, either at our own businesses or for others except in the summer when I stayed home with the boys and even then we did the farmer's markets to earn extra money.  I loved the opportunity to raise our sons away from town. That was by far the most important aspect of being on the farm.

Is it hard work? YES!  Is it worth it? HECK YES!  8)

Good luck.
Women are Angels.
And when someone breaks our wings....
We simply continue to fly ........
on a broomstick.....
We are flexible like that.

D._Frederick

If you have not lived and worked on a farm, my advice would be to find a place that you could rent with an option to buy. There are an awful lot of headaches that go along with living and working in the country that can make you wish that you could turn the clock back. If you don't have a big savings account, don't think about farming!

asy

Thanks everyone, advice is very much needed, and appreciated.

I had sorta decided that a cow was probably too much work, as cute as they are...  Will get a flock of chooks, and maybe a goat or pet sheep (for lawn mowing purposes).

I can't wait to put an orchard in, and Raised veggie beds. There's NOTHING there at the moment, so I'm starting from scratch, which is good, coz then I can do what I want.  I more or less know exactly what I want in veggie beds. I will make 6 beds (to start with) all 2x3m (6x9ft) raised 2ft off the ground so I can reach them without kneeling (important for me). This way I can use a rotational crop system. I'll also have a small ground level bed for small crops such as corn etc.

I will also get a couple of horses. I want a Shire or Belgian (or at least a Clydesdale) for me (so I don't have to carry the horse...) and a stock horse for Stephanie.

I am scared lifeless of getting a gun, since I've never had one, but there are wild pigs on the property (coming off the state forest behind us), and I have no doubt there are also wild dogs and foxes in there, all of which are shootable in my books. I think I will see if there's a gun club or something I can go to to learn how to drive a rifle. (and yes, I know about gun safes etc... :D)

Keep the info coming! Please!!

asy :D


Never interrupt your opponent while he's making a mistake.
There cannot be a crisis next week. ~My schedule is already full..

Ernie

Is this that 2000 acre block you were talking about before?

In Aussie, I imagine that the first and most important thing is reliable, potable year round water, If you've got that, you can do anything there.

Jan and I are coming over to Brissy for a couple of days at the end of this month, It would be nice to catch up with you guys and flap our faces at each other for a while.  PM me with your number if you like and I'll give you a bell.
A very wise man once told me . Grand children are great, we should have had them first

Sprucegum

Wild pigs?!?  Get a gun, my wife used to be afraid of guns til she decided she was more afraid of bears ;D

Check the local Associations to see if they have a young people's agriculture-learning group. Here we call it 4-H, its an assoc. that teaches young farmers how to farm properly. They would be more than pleased to hear from you.

OneWithWood

If wild pigs are a concern I would opt for a 30-30 Winchester over a .22.  You want to be sure and stop a wild pig, not just make it mad  :o

I think tree farming is the best of all worlds.  If you can't get to a job today it will wait.  The time frame of when things absolutely have to get done is much broader and more to my liking.  The only downside is that weeding can be a major operation if you do it yourself.
One With Wood
LT40HDG25, Woodmizer DH4000 Kiln

asy

Good point about the mad boar, OWW. Thanks...

Interesting, I had a chat with my Carpenter today, as I was working with him on a house I'm renovating. He is extremely well versed in firearms, and has consented to teach me to drive one, and keep safe. He will also help me to choose an appropriate one for our requirements.

He said a .22 would be too small for wild boar unless I just wanted to make them mad too. :D

If we get the block we are looking at now, it'll be fantastic, there's lots of wood on it, just gotta hope the government doesn't go too crazy on us.

As the law stands now, you can clear 5ac of land on any lot. Whether your lot is 20ac or 2000ac, you can only clear 5ac per year.

The new legislation coming through the state government at the moment is that NO Automatic clearing rights will be allowed. There are still some rights retained, for example clearing fence lines, and the home paddock, but we would not be able to walk out onto the land and cut a tree down and harvest it. Andrew is working to unravel the lunacy of the legislation now to see what we can and can't do.

Should be interesting.

Spruce, thanks for the tip on the 4-H. Will see if something similar is available here. Although the School I am looking at (according to their website) has ag subjects.

asy :D

asy :D
Never interrupt your opponent while he's making a mistake.
There cannot be a crisis next week. ~My schedule is already full..

Tom

In my opinion:
If I had to have just one gun, it would be a 12 guage shotgun.  It has enough "oomph" for most bigger game and enough "finesse" for the smaller stuff.  It's slug capabilities will take down large animals and it's pattern of pellets will get flying fowl.

Twenty-two's have their place.  They don't mess up meat in small game.   If you are a decent shot, you will like one for squirrel and rabbit.   I have a couple of 22 rifles that I use mostly for killing cans.  I carry a 22 pistol when I am in the swamp.  It's mostly just for snakes.  Pistols are sure handy, especially when working in a field.  But, if you get one, allow for a lot of practice time.  Most folks have more trouble hitting targets with a handgun than they do a long gun.

When I was growing up, rifles were almost forbidden.  Their range was too great.  Shotguns will wade through brush and stay on target.  Rifle projectiles may end up anywhere within a couple of miles of where they were pointed.  A shotgun's range is shorter, but, that isn't always a bad thing.

Auto-loaders are neat.  Mine holds 5 shells, though legally just 3.   I have found that the first shot is what counts.  A second shot on fowl can come in handy if I can keep my wits about me.   A third shot is usually wasted.

Pumps are great for farm guns because they don't jam from dirt as readily as an auto-loader.  Most farm guns around here live in the cab of the pickup or utility vehicle and most will even have a dusting of rust on the barrel.  A lot of the farmers use single shots because they are so inexpensive.

Double barrel's are good guns, but, for some reason, have become quite expensive.   I think it has to do with image more than functionality.

asy

THanks for that Tom! Much appreciated, I'll read it over a few times to digest it.

I'm not likely to be shooting fowl, flying or otherwise, as I don't hunt. I envisage the only thing I will be shooting is wild dogs, wild pigs and the occasional snake. There's no way I'd shoot a native animal unless it was injured or viscious/dangerous.

ALthough, I am waiting for the day my daughter starts bringing boys home. I'm gonna be standing on the porch with a shotgun, and the backhoe within view and mention to them that if she gets into any 'trouble' of any sort, I'm gonna show him how the shotgun and backhoe can work together...   :o

* asy wonders if this comes under the category 'occasional snake'...

I do like the idea of a double barrel, as I think that if I miss with the first shot, I'd like to be able to take anohter without reloading. Also, am worried that both pigs and dogs run in packs.

KEep the ideas coming please everyone, I'm sure this thread will make good reading for all people looking to move to a farm.

asy :D
Never interrupt your opponent while he's making a mistake.
There cannot be a crisis next week. ~My schedule is already full..

Faron

I would think about a 12 gauge shotgun, with slugs or maybe better yet, buckshot for those wild hogs and dogs.  I should qualify that with the statement that I have never even SEEN a wild hog, let alone shot one, so you better check with an experienced neighbor about the effectiveness of buckshot on hogs.  My thinking is an inexperienced shooter would have a slightly better chance of making contact on a charging hog with a few more pieces of lead. ;)  I think I would go with a pump rather than a double barrell.
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for dinner.  Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote. - Ben Franklin

Bro. Noble

If I were going to shoot the critters you mentioned,  I would use a 12 gage with large shot-----between BB and OO buck.  You wouldn't have to be a sharpshooter and if you flinched or got buck fever,  you would still have a good chance of hitting your target.  A pump gives you at least five fast shots compared to two for a double barrel.
milking and logging and sawing and milking

Faron

Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for dinner.  Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote. - Ben Franklin

Bro. Noble

 :D :D :D
You were faster typing than I was,  but someone turned the page so it makes it look like I am an original thinker :D :D

Trouble is,  Faron,  you get to agreeing with me and everyone will ignore you too :D :D :D ::)
milking and logging and sawing and milking

Furby


bcraw98

We are loaded with wild hog  :D on our ranch and I can testify first hand that a 12 gauge loaded with 00 buck will kill wild hog. I've killed many with my 12 gauge, 30.06, and even a 22(depends on hog size and or shot placement. Once killed a large boar with 22 mag pistol at 67 yards  ;D .  There are People in my area who get along just fine without guns. The danger posed by wild hogs and other varmits is overrated in my opinion, unless you decide to mess with them.

We are full time cattle ranchers and timber growers and we get by on 2250 acres. So much depends on the productivity of the land(does it take 1 acre or 20 acres per cow) and value of crops to be produced that it's not possible in my opinion to advise you on how much or what to buy. I think you should decide what kind of crop you would enjoy growing and work off that as to what kind and how much land will be needed. I'd only need 10 acres of the right land for a blueberry patch, but I don't want to raise blueberries.
Wife and best Friend, 3 girls and a boy, son-in-law, lots of land, horses, cows, and trees. Life is Good

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