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Carbide, Chrome and Stellite, what are your opinions??

Started by Captain, October 14, 2005, 11:18:03 PM

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Captain

OK you circle sawyers, tell me your experience.

I'm interested in the pros and cons of each type of tip.  Certainly I have a lot of experience with Carbide, but I've only seen big stationary mills running chrome or stellite.  I've been told that stellite was created as a carbide substitute for problematic species in the Pacific NW.

What are your comments??  What does each material do well and do poorly?  How easy are chrome and stellite to maintain?? 

Thanks in advance!!   :)

Captain

Frank_Pender

Captain, I have always used selite teeth in my Mobile Dimension Mills.   I have often thought of trying some carbide teeth, but the price has always caused me to shy away.
Frank Pender

Gilman

Stellite gives you toughness needed when sawing fast through species like fir that are relatively soft and then a sudden hard knot.  I'm pretty sure you use a CBN wheel to sharpen stellite.

Stellite can be induction welded to steel, cheaper than silver solder.

Don't know much about the chrome teeth.
WM LT70, WM 40 Super, WM  '89 40HD
Cat throwing champion 1996, 1997, 1999. (retired)

Ron Wenrich

Are you guys running replaceable teeth?

I use chrome on my vertical edger, but regular steel on my headsaw.   Metal tends to be a problem, at times.  None of the others are cost effective when you run as many teeth as I do and hit as much trash metal. 

Chrome stays sharper longer than regular steel.  But, its harder to sharpen.
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Captain


Sawyerfortyish

If you don't debark your logs the carbides will be scrap in just a few logs. I tryed em any dirt in the bark the corners of the bit chip off and there done. I like Ron use regular steel bits in my saw. If they dull from useage or dirt you can swage them and resharpen pretty quick. I tryed the chrome bits last winter they do hold an edge longer but when you have to sharpen them you remove the chrome surface and there just like regular steel then.

Frickman

I used to run regular steel, but got tired swaging and sharpening every half a day. I switched over to some locally produced carbide bits, and don't ever want to go back to regular steel. In relatively clean logs I'll saw ten to twenty thousand feet before sharpening. I used to be lucky to saw two thousand with regular steel.

I don't have a debarker, but my bits don't get dulled by dirt. I try to keep my logs relatively clean, and alot of them are forwarded instead of skidded. I've found that the tannic acid in oak dulls the bits faster than dirt. I've been told that the acid breaks down the binder in the carbide, causing the bit to dull. When I used regular steel the bits would steadily dull from the time you started using them. The carbide stays sharp and then gets dull all at once. I've already stopped sawing in the middle of a log to sharpen the saw, as the bits quit sawing all at once.

This local machinest/sawdoc takes bdf standall bits, grinds them down, and installs a carbide insert. Many of the local mills are using his bits. So many, in fact, that Simonds was wondering why they weren't selling many bits in this area, even though there are alot of mills. They sent a man to look into it, and everybody pointed to the sawdoc in town. He had quite a suprise when a bigshot from Simnonds showed up at the door of his shop. This fellow even reuses your old bits unless they're shot, saving you alot of money.
If you're not broke down once in a while, you're not working hard enough

I'm not a hillbilly. I'm an "Appalachian American"

Retired  Conventional hand-felling logging operation with cable skidder and forwarder, Frick 01 handset sawmill

Pretend farmer when I have the time

Frank_Pender

Frickman, that is my kind of competition, folks.  I wonder if he could do the same for the teeth I have saved in a two pound coffee can? 
Frank Pender

J_T

Like Frickman said  8) I changed to carbide almost forgot where I put my grinder  :D Been sawing a lot of hickrey lateley too Those steel bits were keeping me busy though  :D :D
Jim Holloway

Sawyerfortyish

Frickman what does it cost to have that done to the teeth? How can I get a hold that guy?

Frickman

Last I bought some bits they were around $3.00/each. It's been a while so I can't exactly remember. I'll IM anyone who wants his number.
If you're not broke down once in a while, you're not working hard enough

I'm not a hillbilly. I'm an "Appalachian American"

Retired  Conventional hand-felling logging operation with cable skidder and forwarder, Frick 01 handset sawmill

Pretend farmer when I have the time

D._Frederick

Of the three, I would go with stellite, it is soft enough that a silicon oxide grinding wheel will sharpen the teeth. When we were sawing with the No.2 American, the steel teeth had to be sharpened twice a day, the stellite would last a week.

sawmill_john

All of my experiance is on the mobile dimebnsion saw but with the few number of teeth (6) per blade the stellite are the only way to go.  I have heard of guys using soft (regular) bits when the logs are very dirty or lots of metal.  Thats about the only time when I would even consider those.  The chrome teeth, I have not used there again I've heard of guys using them because they got a great deal on them.  The real key is keep the "DanG" teeth sharpe!!!  When I worked for MDS 90% of the blades that came into us for repair had horrible teeth in them, chipped, rounded, top ground, you name it they did it.  Shapen the teeth before the saws starts bogging down, it'll save you lots of head aches. 
How's it goin Frank?


john

Frank_Pender

Still waiting for a visit, John.  Great.  Yes, I keep the teeth sharp.  I do need a hammer job, I believe, for the outside mill.  I just have trouble getting myself to drive to Troutdale, 85 miles. :'(
Frank Pender

lawyer_sawyer

Captain
did you ever decide to try different teeth and if so what has your experience been?
LS
Love the outdoors, chainsaws, my 300 win mag, my wife and my son but not exactly in that order.

Captain

I'm venturing into stellite in the next two weeks, I've got to get setup with a grinding wheel first however.

That begs a question for you stellite users however;  in which species is there an advantage to stellite over carbide??

I'll be back with a report in a few weeks.

Captain

Modat22

Stellite makes a danG nice exhaust valve and seat.

Don't know about your application but someone gave me 2 lathe bits made out of something called TantunG and I gotta say these tools never get dull or seem to over heat (I used them for turning plugs out of cast iron window weights).

if you can get a set of cutters made of this stuff I think you'd be impressed. You can't sharpen them on a carbide wheel they'll eat the wheel up and not touch the tantung tool, you have to use a diamond wheel.

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remember man that thy are dust.

oakiemac

I'm using regular steel bits in my saw right now because of hitting a lot of metal. The steel cost about 1/3 of what the stellite teeth do. I do have to sharpen more often but when I hit metal the stellite teeth were trashed were as the metal teeth just bend a little and can often be salvaged plus they cost a lot less. If I got my logs from loggers and I knew the trees were forest grown then I probably would go with the stellite teeth. But using tree service logs and small woodlot trees I see way too much hard ware. ;D
Mobile Demension sawmill, Bobcat 873 loader, 3 dry kilns and a long "to do" list.

Coon

My neighbour that I often work with has a home built circular mill.  He uses carbide bits for the most part but often changes out his bits and replaces them with steel for dirtier logs.  Keep in mind he only saws spruce and white poplar and the very occaisional tammarack.  We have found that using the carbide bits that they tend to round the corners very badly when sawing tammarack and swamp spruce as they tend to have higher levels of dirt right in the wood itself.  We do know for a fact that the logs are not dirty from skidding because when he logs he does so in the winter months when he has sufficient snow and all of the logs are decked off of the ground for easier loading with his front end loader. :o :o
Norwood Lumbermate 2000 w/Kohler,
Husqvarna, Stihl and, Jonsereds Saws

Frank_Pender

I pressure wash all of my logs, very clean before I set the saw teeth into the log.  With 4,000 psi I can just about remove all of the bark if I want to take the time.

A friend of mine is going to try the carbide teeth from some folks in McKinney, Texas.  They have an add in the most recent TMS Machinery Sales catalog with an intro offer of $3.00 for each tooth.  You will need a diamond wheel as well.
Frank Pender

J_T

Frank would that be ARsaw ? Got a sample the other day does have a lot more meat on them . Will try a set next time that guy even clames they will cut nails and not destroy them ;D
Jim Holloway

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