Height of cut

[thiggy]

When I am felling a tree, I often make the cut at waist height then later cut the stump flush with the ground.  This is to avoid having to jump up from a kneeling position to move to avoid the falling tree.  However, recently in this forum I read a comment which leads me to wonder if there is some reason not to fell a tree in such a manner.  Any comments from experienced sawyers?  Thanks

[Ron Scott]

You are loosing most of the trees value, especially if you are cutting sawlog size trees that way. You are loosing the product value in the first log or stick. Not good. We don't allow that method of falling in our commercial timber harvests. ;)

[Tom]

I can't speak for the felling part of it, but, there is a lot of good, clear wood in that bottom 2 or 3 feet of tree that is a shame to waste.  

People doing land clearing usually get in the habit of leaving a tall stump so that the bulldozers have a leverage to push out the stump.   They aren't concerned with the conservation or identification of saw wood though.

I would think that the higher the stump, the more danger you expose yourself to, if, and when, the tree jumps off of the stump.

[floyd]

Experienced fallers can feather theback cut til the tree is practically laying down eliminating the need to "jump up"

[Oregon Engineer]

The only times I leave a high stump is if the stump is going to be removed or the tree has rot near the ground.

[Ianab]

The only times I leave a high stump is if the stump is going to be removed or the tree has rot near the ground.

Or there is fence wire sticking out of the tree >:( :

Ian

[Woodhog]

I always cut dead or rotted trees at waist height, this way you are not all humped over
when the top sometimes breaks off while you are working at the tree or when it starts to fall.
When all is clear I then cut off the remainder of the stump...
I work in a lot of mature balsam fir and they are continually attacking my head...

You can take a few quick glances at the top area when finishing the cut if you are not all
bent over....

As the other comments said you never waste any of the butt log if its commercial quality, we cut as low to the ground as not to ruin the chain....

[Frickman]

In our local hardwoods there is an area at the bottom of the trunk that we call a "collar." I don't know if this is the correct name or not. It's the part where the bole starts flaring out into the stump and roots, and where the tree breathes some I've been told. That is usually where I cut the tree at. Above it you are wasting wood. A high stump is also murder on a skidder, and not as good for stump sprout regeneration. Below that level the fibers and grain of the wood start to "turn" radically toward horizontal. Cutting here does three things. It dulls your saw quickly, as you're down in the dirt or close to it. The fibers of the wood run at an angle through your hinge instead of up and down, causing the hinge wood to break very easily. And the high slope angle of the grain makes weak lumber that breaks anyway when it is sawn. There are exceptions to every rule of course, but this is the standard around here.

This height can be anywhere from one inch to eighteen inches or more. It depends on the individual tree's species, diameter, location, and other variables.

[Sawyerfortyish]

Just about all my trees with the exception of trees with wire or badly rotted butts or a low double stem are cut within 6" of ground level. Just think of this a 3' stump of a tree over 20" can easily have 20-40 bdft of lumber in it at say 1.00+ a ft if you cut 25 trees in a day figuring 20.00 loss per tree cost you 500.00 in lumber you threw away. Thats figuring low if it's maple veneer or cherry you could more than double that. Cutting that way makes a lot of veeneer logs into a lower grade sawlogs.

[wiam]

I worked with a guy chopping for about a week.  The boss came up into the woods  and told the other guy he could tell which stumps he cut.  The guy looked confused.  Then the boss told him " I know William has worked in the woods with a farm tractor."

Will

[Furby]

Got hung up on a stump in a buddy's two track today.
He told me a few were high, I felt it scrap as the front of the truck went over and hoped the rear would clear...............
Nope! Dead center. :

[thiggy]

Thanks for all the excellent comments.

[sawguy21]

I have wondered about this too. I have seen a lot of tall stumps after winter felling in deep snow but that does seem like a lot of waste. Most cut and deck during the summer months then haul like gangbusters after freezeup.

[tawilson]

I like to sit down and rest after cutting a tree, so I usually cut at butt height.

[rebocardo]

>  if there is some reason not to fell a tree in such a manner

Three good reasons not to:

1) you need the extra wood in the hinge to fall the tree safely

2) you need the extra wood to help pivot the tree if attaching lines. If you place your line in a tree 1/2 way up and then cut two feet higher you might chance the tree falling backwards and the butt going towards your face cut.

3) if the tree might get hung, if it stays on a high trunk two+ feet off the ground that is much more dangerous then six inches from the ground on a closed face, imo.

[Deadwood]

I usually cut the stump as low as possable whether I am cutting either Logs or Pulpwood. The main reason is money. While many people touched on the fact that you can achieve 20-30 bft from some trees, you also gain with pulpwood.

With most pulpwood being purchased according to weight, the firt foot of a tree can weigh up as much as 4 feet or more at the top, hence the reason I cut my stumps low.

I also cut low because with the Open Face felling techinique, the tree won't break off the stump and strike the logger if done correctly. There are a few other reasons too, like occassionaly harvesting with a small tractor instead of a skidder and having been taught at a young age to cut my stumps low.

The only time I do cut a tree stump high is if the ground is going to be cleared...say for a house or something. That way the bulldozer can hit the stump up high and leverage it out of the ground.

[Ron Scott]

Stump heights in our timber harvest contracts call for the stump heights to be cut as close to the ground as practical and no stumps are to be left heigher than 12 inches in height for sawlog size trees or 8 inches in height for pulpwood size trees.

[rebocardo]

> I also cut low because with the Open Face felling techinique, the tree won't break off the stump
> and strike the logger if done correctly.

Yes, I do that sometimes when I do not want the log to roll at all off the stump when the tree is down

[Sawyerfortyish]

In my area it is a plus not to have a big stump when land clearing. Most excavators have huge track hoes and don't need leverage of a high stump. Also they pay buy the ton to get rid of stumps. So if you cut the stump low it works out for everyone.

[Radar67]

That way the bulldozer can hit the stump up high and leverage it out of the ground.

I'm planning my driveway/road and was wondering...
What is a good height to leave for a dozer to get the stumps out? (In my case, the trees will be no larger than 12" diameter a foot off the ground)

Stew

[Tom]

It depends on the size of the Dozer.

It depends on the type of tree. (tap root or ball)

12" pines that are pushed around here with a D3 or D4 are left with 3' or 4' stumps.

Oaks and sweetgums have shallower roots and a 3' stump is ample. You usually still have to cut the roots with the blade though because the tractor is sitting on them while pushing the stump.  It's making the tractor lift its self.

[Radar67]

Most of mine will be scrub brush with a few hardwoods here and there. Once I get to the other side of the creek, I'll have young pines up to the 12" diameter.

Stew

[jim king]

If you cut that high in the Amazon you would be part of the famous "illegal harvest" and your wood would be confiscated.  That is not to say that everyone pays attention to the law.  The highest volume wood exported from the Amazon is Virola and it grows in swamp land on the river banks that can only be harvested in the flood season.  For this the trees are generally cut in the flooded areas from dugout canoes and many times up to two logs are left on the stump as we have an average river rise and fall of forty feet from one season to another.

[Tom]

It's not the approved method here either, Jim.  But when only a small area is being cleared for a reason other than harvest and small dozers are being used, one must leave enough stump for leverage.  The other option is digging them out and a dozer makes a fair sized hole when digging stumps.