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Question for welders and Builders

Started by Radar67, October 05, 2005, 03:04:57 PM

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Radar67

Hello all,
     I'm about to order the material to build my saw trailer. My question is, what size channel should I use? I'm thinking about 4", would that be adequate? My Oscar 28 weighs about 600 pounds with rails, counter weights and all. My design is for a 16 foot frame cross braced every 3 feet. I will place leveling jacks every 4 feet. The width will be 31 inches. Any suggestions before I get started?
"A man's time is the most valuable gift he can give another." TOM

If he can cling to his Blackberry, I can cling to my guns... Me

This will kill you, that will kill you, heck...life will kill you, but you got to live it!

"The man who can comprehend the why, can create the how." SFC J

Fla._Deadheader

All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

Dan_Shade

i used 2x6 11gauge tubing for mine, I probably should have used 1/4" tubing  my deck is about 18' long or so, and I have 20' angle iron overhanging the ends.  I also used 2x2 tubing for my "log deck", and have some 2" angle in there as well.

I have 6 jacks, which seems to be plenty, i'm not real sure how many you would really need.   I have a cross brace every 4 feet on mine. 

I'd strongly consider going to 6" tubing instead of the 4" stuff, it will be much stiffer, and the stiffer the better these saws work.

here are my photos:  https://forestryforum.com/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=190
Woodmizer LT40HDG25 / Stihl 066 alaskan
lots of dull bands and chains

There's a fine line between turning firewood into beautiful things and beautiful things into firewood.

D._Frederick

Radar,

I used the lightest 6 inch channel I could get for my mill frame.

The problem I ran into with channel was that it is not straight, the two lengths of 20 footer of hot roll that I bought were crooks in lumber terms. Placing a wire from end to end, they had 3/8 inch deviation. I checked with the steel supplies and they said that was within spec. I used them, but had to work around this problem.

I don't know how tubing is, but I would sure look at it very close before I signed the receipt.

If you are going to use tubing to support logs, get something larger than 2 X 2 inch, the weight of the log can bend it.

Sprucegum

2x6x1/4 tubing would be very sturdy....and heavy. The price gets a lot heavier too ;D

But if I had the dollars I'd go heavy - when you put it in place it stays in place.

Disclaimer: I have never built a mill trailer but I have seen some heavy iron

jpad_mi

Good looking track/trailer Dan!

I used 3x6x3/16 tubing for the perimeter and 2x4x3/16 for the cross bunks (at roughly 32inch spacing if I remember).  I'm glad I bought the bulk of the steel back when it was only $0.38/lb for the brand-spanking new stuff. I have three jack stands per side like Dan.
Jeff P. in Michigan

Sunfield Hardwood

Radar, I'd vote for tube also. Lay it all out on a flat floor, use a level and shims to make sure it's flat. Tack all the parts together, remeasure to make sure it's right then go around the thing welding an inch here and then an inch on opposite side, even heavy tube will warp like crazy if welded solid in one spot all at one time, good luck, sounds like a good plan
2 international log trucks,woodmizer LT40 Super hyd, cat 910 frontloader, case 1845 skidloader,new holland 4x4 tracter with farmi whinch, lots of stihl saws, waiting to retire so I can spend even more time logging and sawing, yip-yip-yahoo

Radar67

I want to thank everyone for replying.

Tubing sounds like the way to go. What does everyone think of 2x4 3/16 tubing? 6 inches sounds like overkill. Realistically the trailer would only have 4600 pounds on it max while sitting in place. I expect to be able to cut 26 inch logs, 14 feet long as the largest with the Oscar 28 (Checked weight with Live oak that size, a little over 3900 pounds). Still, being realistic, the average log I cut would probably be be more in the 18 inch range, 10 to 12 feet long. (the 1000 pound range)

I know bigger is better, but not always feasible. I welcome your comments.
"A man's time is the most valuable gift he can give another." TOM

If he can cling to his Blackberry, I can cling to my guns... Me

This will kill you, that will kill you, heck...life will kill you, but you got to live it!

"The man who can comprehend the why, can create the how." SFC J

Dan_Shade

do you have a bunch of 2x4 stuff laying around?  another thing is if you aren't careful, your jacks (I'm assuming that you are going to use trailer jacks) won't clear the saw. I have two jacks on the outside of the frame, my saw will not pass them with the handles in place.

My sawframe needs outriggers, truth be told, it's pretty wobbly when it's up high.  Mine is definately heavy, the cost is why I didn't use 1/4" tubing, i have about $800 or so in materials in my frame, my dad is an extremely good fabricator, and did a lot of the critical stuff, like welding a bit at a time to keep the steel from pulling and warping too bad.  I used a 4' level and my eyeball to get everything straight.

Another thing to consider is adding bunks or something close enough together to allow you to saw short stuff, there's a niche market for this stuff, I can saw down to like a foot on mine

Woodmizer LT40HDG25 / Stihl 066 alaskan
lots of dull bands and chains

There's a fine line between turning firewood into beautiful things and beautiful things into firewood.

Fla._Deadheader


Think bouncing down them nice smooth flat roads. 6" X 3/16ths would be as light as I would dare to go.
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

dail_h

   26" x 14 ft lands pretty hard when you make the first few turns
World Champion Wildcat Sorter,1999 2002 2004 2005
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Dan_Shade

yeah, my 2x2 11 gauge parts of my saw are starting to belly, i see them getting plated down the road.
Woodmizer LT40HDG25 / Stihl 066 alaskan
lots of dull bands and chains

There's a fine line between turning firewood into beautiful things and beautiful things into firewood.

Brian_Rhoad

If you are welding a track onto the frame you have to bow the steel frame so when the welds cool it will be flat. I built a 24' track for my Breezewood mill out of 3 1/2" square tubing that is 3/16" thick. I had a 4" crown in the middle of the rail when i welded it. When it was done and unclamped it was perfectly straight. If I wouldn't of bowed the rail it would have looked like a banana!

Radar67

Okay, everyone has sold me on the idea of using 6 inch tube. Now I have to rework my drawings.  :(

Brian, how did you get the 4 inch crown in the rail?

My plan is to build the frame from (now 2x6 3/16) tubing, then add my factory rails on either end and adding angle to fill in the gap.

Dan, I like the idea about outriggers. I'm thinking place riggers on the side opposite where I'll be walking and mounting the jacks directly to the frame on the walking side. I noticed the cable winch on your rig, how did you mount it to keep it out of the way of the saw? Or is it removable? Are you still using the factory dogs? What is the extension span on your jacks? (I looked at the 11 to 21 inch range) And, tell me more about the market for short stuff.
"A man's time is the most valuable gift he can give another." TOM

If he can cling to his Blackberry, I can cling to my guns... Me

This will kill you, that will kill you, heck...life will kill you, but you got to live it!

"The man who can comprehend the why, can create the how." SFC J

Brian_Rhoad

I used a 4" pipe under the rail in the middle and 2" pipe 1/2 way between the middle and each end. I laid the rail on top of the pipes and used a 4x4 post and bottle jack on each end going up to my shop ceiling under a rafter. I jacked the post up until it pushed the rail down onto the floor at each end. You must use the three peices of pipe. If you only use one in the middle it will just put a "kink" in the middle, not an even crown or arch. When you weld only weld 1" long beads and alternate sides and ends. Don't start at one end and go straight down the rail. Jump back and forth from side to side so you don't over heat the rail.

EZ

The second time around I used 4x8 tubing 1/4 thick. If I would build another frame it would be built just like the one I have now. Cost was big but well worth it to me.
EZ

Dan_Shade

i believe if you are really watchful, and attentive, and only weld a little bit at a time, you can avoid having to crown the tubing prior to welding.  I didn't do any of that with mine, and it's flat.

i welded a 2" reciever tube to the bottom of my track, and used 2" tubing to make a boom, it comes out.

I got "short" jacks from tractor supply, once again, more would be better, but that adds up too.  I really do wish I had spent the extra money for heavier tubing, I don't move my saw around, but this could eventually cause me some problems.

the hudson angle iron is metric, you may have problems getting it to match up, I got a few pieces of 1/4x2 angle and started completely over for my track, if you make me an offer, i'll hook you up with a hudson section ;)

my dog's and backstops are different, i have a few problems with mine, and am planning on swapping out to a different design, i also want to add a threaded setup to the clamp, I have a cam system now which tends to lift the cant from the bed, but that's partly a problem with my backstop too.

wood turners are where short stuff markets are.  the way I look at things, I don't want to have to say "I can't do that" if somebody wants something, so I'll do what I can to figure out how to make it happen :)  a trick I figured out last week was I can use an edging for a "disposable" backstop, i needed a backstop in a different place, so I C-Clamped a 2x2 scrap to the frame, and just sawed it down as I went.
Woodmizer LT40HDG25 / Stihl 066 alaskan
lots of dull bands and chains

There's a fine line between turning firewood into beautiful things and beautiful things into firewood.

rebocardo

6 x 3 x 1/4 rect. tubing is a common size and should be good for a trailer as long as you do not carry a lot of weight on it over the road. if you are using a 120v welder then you should go with 3/16 wall.

Radar67

I picked up the material for my trailer today. I went with 2x6x1/4 for the perimeter, 2x4x3/16 for the bunks (except for one, it's 2x6x1/4, the tounge mounts to it) I'll send pictures once I get started building. Thanks for all the information and help. Now that I have the 2x6 tube on hand, it is very straight, stout and strong! 8)
"A man's time is the most valuable gift he can give another." TOM

If he can cling to his Blackberry, I can cling to my guns... Me

This will kill you, that will kill you, heck...life will kill you, but you got to live it!

"The man who can comprehend the why, can create the how." SFC J

sawguy21

I suggest drilling drain holes in the tubing as I saw problems with rust building on the inside to the point the trailer was no longer safe to tow, especially with a 2 million dollar helicopter perched on it ;D I have never built a large trailer but like channel better for this reason.
old age and treachery will always overcome youth and enthusiasm

mometal77

I thought i would get back on this site and see what everyone is up too.
I am going to trade two cord of cut firewood for a sixty foot mobile home trailer.  The guy built a new house and tore it down over property taxes too high.  Not a bad deal considering steel prices.  It doesnt come with an axle but will be easy to cut the thing in half and have a 30 movable trailer for the mobile dimension.
bobby
Too many Assholes... not enough bullets..."I might have become a millionaire, but I chose to become a tramp!

Furby


Radar67

Attached are a couple of pictures of progress so far.





Next step is springs, axles, and coupler. Then the jacks and winch.
"A man's time is the most valuable gift he can give another." TOM

If he can cling to his Blackberry, I can cling to my guns... Me

This will kill you, that will kill you, heck...life will kill you, but you got to live it!

"The man who can comprehend the why, can create the how." SFC J

Dan_Shade

Woodmizer LT40HDG25 / Stihl 066 alaskan
lots of dull bands and chains

There's a fine line between turning firewood into beautiful things and beautiful things into firewood.

DanG

Lookin' good, Radar! 8) 8) That's comin' right along.

How come all your pics are at night....oh yeah.  You're still working for a living. :-\ ;D :D :D :D
"I don't feel like an old man.  I feel like a young man who has something wrong with him."  Dick Cavett
"Beat not thy sword into a plowshare, rather beat the sword of thine enemy into a plowshare."

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