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anybody know how to manufactur corn oil?

Started by Dan_Shade, September 29, 2005, 10:40:17 PM

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Dan_Shade

how many bushels to a gallon, etc?  i'm curious to the process of creating biodiesel if you owned a farm from your own produce.
Woodmizer LT40HDG25 / Stihl 066 alaskan
lots of dull bands and chains

There's a fine line between turning firewood into beautiful things and beautiful things into firewood.

Frank_Pender

Frank Pender

eldorado


Dan_Shade

I meant how many bushels of corn does it take to make a gallon of corn oil.

:)
Woodmizer LT40HDG25 / Stihl 066 alaskan
lots of dull bands and chains

There's a fine line between turning firewood into beautiful things and beautiful things into firewood.

Fla._Deadheader


Done axed da butler

  "There are five basic steps to accomplish this process. First the incoming corn is inspected and cleaned. Then it is steeped for 30 to 40 hours to begin breaking the starch and protein bonds. The next step in the process involves a coarse grind to separate the germ from the rest of the kernel. The remaining slurry consisting of fiber, starch and protein is finely ground and screened to separate the fiber from the starch and protein. The starch is separated from the remaining slurry in hydrocyclones. The starch then can be converted to syrup or it can be made into several other products through a fermentation process."

  "1 Bushel of Shelled Corn = 5.5 gallons of LP Gas 1 Bushel of Shelled Corn = 3.6 gallons of Fuel Oil "    ;D ;D ;)
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

DonE911

How many gallons of fuel to the barrel of crude?

Sounds like alot of processing to make fuel oil from corn, but I sounds much cheaper than the crude route..... 

Dan_Shade

i'm not so sure...  I did some more digging myself:

from  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corn_oil :
QuoteOne bushel of corn contains 1.55 pounds of corn oil

also, from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biodiesel:

QuoteCurrently, biodiesel is more expensive to produce than petroleum diesel, which is often stated as the primary factor keeping it from being in more widespread usage. Economies of scale in biodiesel production, however, as well as the rising cost of petroleum, may reduce, eliminate, or even reverse this cost differential in the future. Current worldwide production of vegetable oil and animal fat, however, is not enough to replace liquid fossil fuel use. Some environmental groups, notably the NRDC (Natural Resources Defense Council), object to the vast amount of farming and the resulting over-fertilization, pesticide use, and land use conversion that would be needed to produce the additional vegetable oil.

I'm sure lots of that is debatable, basically, I'm wondering if you had a farm, could you grow enough corn to make biodiesel to fuel your operation, and continue to operate "business" as usual otherwise.
Woodmizer LT40HDG25 / Stihl 066 alaskan
lots of dull bands and chains

There's a fine line between turning firewood into beautiful things and beautiful things into firewood.

DonE911

I don't know.

My great uncle is a corn grower in southern Indiana....  I'm not sure how many acres he farms, but it thousands for sure.  He buys his fuel...  he is a penny pincher as most farmers are ..  he has alot of down time, so I'm sure he'd be making fuel if he he could justify it.

Maybe I should give him a call and ask him what he thinks about it.

Fla._Deadheader

 Upon further review, I have discovered that my recent info was mis-stated. I believe the actual was "Equivalent" to 3.6 gallons of fuel.

 When trying to use "New" oil, that statement may be accurate, Dan, however, used oil has already paid it's way, so to speak, so, it is "Free" not counting cost of collection.  I KNOW I can produce it for less than $2.00 gal., all costs included.
Larger batches should bring the cost down some.
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

DonE911

FDH

How much used oil could a person actually collect?  I know you can hit up the fast food places and stuff, but would a person be able to collect enough to keep running on french fry juice with just a weekly collection?

Dan_Shade

are you using recycled oil from fast food joints, Harold?
Woodmizer LT40HDG25 / Stihl 066 alaskan
lots of dull bands and chains

There's a fine line between turning firewood into beautiful things and beautiful things into firewood.

Larry

Corn stoves are quite popular in this area.  Some people have said you can buy corn at the elevator and heat cheaper than electric or LP.  Guess you could say the corn is replacing fossil fuel with very little conversion expense.
Larry, making useful and beautiful things out of the most environmental friendly material on the planet.

We need to insure our customers understand the importance of our craft.

DanG

Back to the original question;  According to the Purdue Univ. site, the oil comes from the germ, which must be separated from the rest of the kernal.  One bushel of corn will produce about a half-pound of oil, so it would take about 14 bushels to make a gallon.

Wonder how long it would take a fella to separate all them germs from all them kernels?  Sounds just a bit tedious to me. ::)

The method FDH started describing above is actually the preparation for making ethanol.  There is a method of extracting oil in that process, called "Aqueous Transfer."  Basically it consists of letting the oil rise to the top and skimming it off.

It seems to me that the practice of making bio-diesel from used oil will be a very limited and short-lived endeavor.  It's only a matter of time before the fast-food industry realizes the value of their by-product.  Meanwhile, it is a real boost to those enterprising folks that take advantage of it. ;)
"I don't feel like an old man.  I feel like a young man who has something wrong with him."  Dick Cavett
"Beat not thy sword into a plowshare, rather beat the sword of thine enemy into a plowshare."

Dan_Shade

the waste oil thing will always be a small scale thing, the oil may go from "free" to a small fee, but it's still something the restaurants will have to get rid of.  Also, many may still just prefer to give it away than to deal with the paperwork of an additional transaction :)  actually, what probably will happen is a $20 under the table palm greasing to the guy in charge  :D
Woodmizer LT40HDG25 / Stihl 066 alaskan
lots of dull bands and chains

There's a fine line between turning firewood into beautiful things and beautiful things into firewood.

DanG

Doin' a little "Devil's Advocate" math, here, how much do you actually save?  FDH say's he can make bio for $2 a gallon, so he's saving about a buck a gallon.  Factor in the time it takes, going to fetch the oil, and the $20 "tip", you may as well tank up at Flyin' J and go fishing. ::) ;)
"I don't feel like an old man.  I feel like a young man who has something wrong with him."  Dick Cavett
"Beat not thy sword into a plowshare, rather beat the sword of thine enemy into a plowshare."

SwampDonkey

When you mention the potential for the fast food jonts adding a fee for the used oil it brought something to mind. A few years ago you could get the suet from local butcher shops for free for birds in winter. Then the demand for the suet spurred the meat shops to start charging for this waste product. I don't think it's negative, I think if there is a demand there then why not make a buck. ;D
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OneWithWood

Quote from: SwampDonkey on September 30, 2005, 09:51:02 AM
I think if there is a demand there then why not make a buck. ;D

sounds like something oil executives are saying . . .  ;)
One With Wood
LT40HDG25, Woodmizer DH4000 Kiln

Fla._Deadheader


Sorry, can't argue with facts. I don't know nothing. Tired of beatin a dead horse.  :(
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

woodbowl

Quote from: Larry on September 30, 2005, 08:41:34 AM
Corn stoves are quite popular in this area.  Some people have said you can buy corn at the elevator and heat cheaper than electric or LP.  Guess you could say the corn is replacing fossil fuel with very little conversion expense.


What I haven't seen is the potential to use corn in a gasogen generator.

Mother Link
Full time custom sawing at the customers site since 1995.  WoodMizer LT40 Super Hyd.

DanG

Harold, note the "Devil's Advocate" qualifier in my post?  Not criticizing what you're doing.  I think it's great!  I also think it is temporary, because you'll soon have to start paying for the oil.  Go for it as long as it lasts, and when it is over, you will have saved some bucks and learned a lot. :)

The oil companies are already on the bandwagon.  I've recently seen ads from Shell and Exxon talkin' about bio fuels.
"I don't feel like an old man.  I feel like a young man who has something wrong with him."  Dick Cavett
"Beat not thy sword into a plowshare, rather beat the sword of thine enemy into a plowshare."

DouginUtah

Quote from: DonE911 on September 30, 2005, 08:06:44 AM
How many gallons of fuel to the barrel of crude?

There are 42 gallons in a barrel of crude. From that you can get 19.4 gallons of gasoline. That's for light, sweet crude. You get less from the heavy, sour crude which is coming out now.

I have tried to get used oil from the fast food places and so far they all have someone who does the job on a regular basis and aren't interested in some Joe coming and wanting to complicate the system they have going.

Dan is right about scale. It can work for an individual but nationally we use over 20 million barrels of crude per day. The only alternative to the depletion of reserves is demand destruction.

-Doug


-Doug
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There is no need to say 'unleaded regular gas'. It's all unleaded. Just say 'regular gas'. It's not the 70s anymore. (At least that's what my wife tells me.)

---

Ron Wenrich

So, how do you keep track of the road tax?  Just because you make your own fuel does not exempt you from the taxes.

Off road diesel in our area is $2.29.  Not much of a savings.

They are also putting in plants to convert coal to diesel.  They are going to use the culm - which is low quality coal that is seperated out.
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Dan_Shade

I'd just get really good mileage ;)


I'm just trying to figure out the whole scheme of things, currently, I think biodiesel is only working on a very small scale Vs the need for fuel oil.

if every farmer started making their own, could they still make ends meet?  I think there are some gov't subsidies for farmers fooling with this stuff now, but I"m not sure.

i'm brainstorming, the family owns a farm back home, but the problem is they are pretty much against any "new" ideas, one main reason I decided I needed to find another way to make a living :(
Woodmizer LT40HDG25 / Stihl 066 alaskan
lots of dull bands and chains

There's a fine line between turning firewood into beautiful things and beautiful things into firewood.

twoodward15

not knowing the specifics, I have to disagree, Ron,  When you are paying tax, you are paying it on the fuel you are buying.  If he isn't buying it then there wouldn't be any tax on it.  It's actually legal to make your own fuel.  I don't pay taxes on the cookies I bake, but if I buy'em in the grocery store then I have to pay them. 
108 ARW   NKAWTG...N      Jersey Thunder

Ron Wenrich

But, you do pay for the roads with the taxes from the fuel.  If you aren't using the roads, then no tax.  They used to pinch guys for putting home heating oil in their Mercedes diesel.  The dye has changed all of that.

It wouldn't be hard to find guys running bio.  Just follow the french fry smell.   ;D
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

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