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sonotubes for a log shed

Started by treeboy, September 29, 2005, 03:50:17 PM

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treeboy

I am planning on building a 12x16 log shed with 10" - 12" pine. My questions are does any one know how many sonotubes I should use, and whats the best way to attach these to the structure? I am guessing I should have 6 sonotubes but I think it would work best to have a metal "u" shaped attachment coming out of the tube for the log to rest in. The other option I guess is to have a piece of rebar sticking out and sandwich a piece of treated lumber in between the log and the tube. Any thoughts? :-\

Ernie

Duh

What's a sonotube???

Sounds like some sort of musical instrument.

Maybe they haven't reached New Zealand yet.
A very wise man once told me . Grand children are great, we should have had them first

beenthere

Did Arkansawyer have a picture of the support he made to set a post on?  Seems I recall that.
I'll take a look.  :)
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Jim_Rogers

At the raising I went to last Saturday, we erected a 14' x 16' timber frame shed/barn on a set of 6 tubes. I was hoping for eight one also on each end, for support where the doors are/could be.
We put a rubber membrane between the concrete and the sills.
The excavator man who located the tubes and poured the concrete installed some threaded rods into the concrete per the designer's drawing. So that the rod would approach the top of the 7" sill.
We located the sills on blocks over the threaded rods and transferred locations of the rods to the top of the sills and bored a hole through the sills and sited the rod below. Then we notched out the hole for the washer and set the sills down onto the threaded rods and put on the washers and nuts. These rods were short enough so that we didn't have to cut them off with a hack saw.
The rods where in each of the six tubes so that it was held in place on all sides.
There are many hold down devices that you can find on sites like Simpson strong ties for all kinds of uses.

Good luck with your project.

Jim Rogers
Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension

beenthere

Looked and found the "Arky" design for a post on concrete sonotube ( I think it will work with good reinforcing rod tied in the concrete pillar).
Arky 'stand'

Go to post #13 in this thread and the last pic on that post.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

srjones

Ernie,

Funny you should say it sounds like a musical instrument--sonotubes are used by some people to construct DIY subwoofer (bass) speakers. 

But most know Sonotubes for round forms to create concrete pillars.  BIG LONG LINK


Formatubes are basically the same thing by the same company marketed in AU and NZ.
ANOTHER BIG, LONG, LINK


-srj
Everyone has hobbies...I hope to live in mine someday.

Raphael

My timber sills are attached in a process similiar to what Jim describes.  I used long J bolts (available at Home Depot if your local yard does stock them), sill seal, and a 2x12 PT subsill that extends outward for the SIPS to land on.  For a shed I'd go with the rubber Jim mentioned rather than sill seal and skip the PT altogether.
... he was middle aged,
and the truth hit him like a man with no parachute.
--Godley & Creme

Stihl 066, MS 362 C-M & 24+ feet of Logosol M7 mill

Ernie

Thanks SRJ

I have been enlightened

Ernie
A very wise man once told me . Grand children are great, we should have had them first

Don P

QuoteI have been enlightened

Sounds like a grits emergency  ;D.

crtreedude

I am sure that the grits would cause him to be unenlightened...
So, how did I end up here anyway?

Don P


Ernie

Is Grits like coarse ground corn meal?
A very wise man once told me . Grand children are great, we should have had them first

Don P

Yup, for yellow grits. White hominy grits are dehulled then ground. 

Ernie

I'll have to rush down the the supermarket and try them/ it  ;D

How do I cook them/it?
A very wise man once told me . Grand children are great, we should have had them first

treeboy

Thanks guys, would anyone know the smallest sized tube I could get by with?

Ernie I have an uncle who was raised in the south - he would always go on about the grits and collard green. When I went down the greens weren't bad but the grits we like pulverized rice with milk and butter. Sorry but nothing to write home about, but I would eat them again - unlike veggiemite. :D

Don P

Well, I'll take comfort in the fact that you're not filling the tubes with them  ;D.
I like to put a footing at the bottom of the tube. On a recent porch we placed a 2'x2'x8" thick footing under each pier, turned a rebar up, and later stood a 12" sonotube on that. Then placed a flat 1/4x6x6" plate of steel with hooks welded to the bottom into the top of the tube's pour. The porch posts have a piece of 5" square tube welded to a plate with a knife plate welded on top of that, inserted in their bottoms. The posts are cut to slip down over the knife plate and the 5x5 can drift around on the flat plate on the sonotube till its in alignment then it gets welded.

Theres a company called bigfoot forms that also makes footer forms for sonotubes.
I have let some masons talk me into using their poured tubes with no footings, till one tipped under load. Ain't going there again  :(

krusty

Why not consider a drystone foundation for it? My sobon shed sat for a couple of years on 6 pillars of dry stone.

treeboy

Hi Krusty, our plan so far is to save the rocks for the log cabin - there aren't too many good ones around. Access to our lot is on 3 miles of old skidder trails - so its pretty rough. Can't bring in too many supplies. We want to build a shed with a loft to sleep in and store tools and equipment. I do think a stone foundation looks much nicer but we need the way with the least amount of materials.

Hoop

 Please use the forum gallery for photos (admin)

Shows my "not so high tech" method of a foundation for a shed.  Pieces of red oak.  I suspect the "foundation" will last for 25+ years.

Furby

25 years with red oak ???
White oak yeah, but red?

beetle

Here is a couple shots of my Billy tubes  :D  18" fiber drums from the trash bin..  ???




Too many hobbies...not enough time.

Greg

Quote from: beetle on October 12, 2005, 06:56:41 AM
Here is a couple shots of my Billy tubes  :D  18" fiber drums from the trash bin..  ???


Beetle,

Thanks for sharing your pics. This is very similar to the six "pier" founcation I am using for my 12 x 18 timberframe shed.

Two questions though:

1) I don't see the point in the rebar, in this configuration anyways. All the forces from the building are coming down in compression, not horizontal (shear) forces. If you were putting up a tall flagpole that was subject to cross winds, I can see how this rebar would stiffen the concrete. But for building sitting on top pushing down, I see no advantage to this. Maybe I'm just dumb ;-)

2) Did you pour any kind of footer below your tubes? I did not even think of doing this, nor can I think of a practical way to do this. But recently a buddy of mine said I should have done this to prevent the tubes (piers) from sinking. I guess I was thinking that, being 4 feet down, I would be well into firm subsoil and this would be enough to prevent sinking.

Any thoughts?

Greg

beetle

I tossed the rebar in because I had it in stock and felt it would only benefit rather than hurt, I dont think its necessary though ..

I drilled 18" holes 48" down and filled it complete with concrete, my billy tubes are only 12" long and I used them just to get elevation.

I would ask your buddy this...drill a 18" hole, place 8" concrete for footer, place 12" Sonotubes on top and fill them.  Whats the difference if you just fill the 18" hole to the top?? The difference is 3 cubic feet of concrete or 350 lbs of additional weight.  If this 350 lbs of weight is going to make it sink then we have bigger problems and better go back to the drawing board.
Too many hobbies...not enough time.

Don P

The job of the footing is to spread out the load over a greater area of soil so that you don't compact it further and have settlement. Its often required to know the bearing capacity of the soil, the weight of the building and design the footings big enough that you don't sink. The 12" sonotube in a soil capable of bearing 2500 pounds per square foot could hold a total load of 1963 pounds. An 18" round would be capable of supporting 4415 pounds in the same soil. A 2'x2' square footing under the tube would support 10,000 pounds.

Make your footers too wide and thin and you can get punch thru.

An old timer told me that any concrete worth pouring was worth reinforcing, I'll go along with that. I like to see things tied together. Hurricane area would have the footing rebar tied through the sonotube column to the post above through bolted or welded connections. Sometimes those are your anchor too, thats when the extra 350 pounds might come in handy.

beetle

Agreed, you need to know your loads and soil bearing capacity and determine the required size. What I was attempting to say is if you have calculated everything and it is determined you require a 18" diameter hole ( which we have done ) what is the difference in pouring it solid or placing a footer pad of concrete in the bottom with a smaller diameter Sonotube on top ? I ran cost numbers and actually determined it was more cost effective to fill it up without a Sonotube. I am sure there are some fine line engineering calculations that will show a difference, but probably splitting hairs, other than 350 lbs.
Too many hobbies...not enough time.

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