iDRY Vacuum Kilns

Sponsors:

Rotten VT bureaucrats and their regulations

Started by Engineer, September 24, 2005, 02:23:52 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Engineer

I just got a letter from Central Boiler in Minnesota.  They know I own one of their outdoor wood boilers and courteously sent me a letter that can affect my use of my boiler.

Basically the Vermont Air Pollution Control division, even in the face of rising fuel prices, is proposing new regulations that will limit emissions from outdoor wood boilers.  This rule is proposing limits that are apparently less than half of the average emissions from an EPA certified indoor woodstove.  This is going to make outdoor boilers all but impossible to use in Vermont.    The federal government (EPA) doesn't have a standard for these things, but yet the flaming idiots that use my tax dollars for their paycheck are getting all high and mighty and deciding what's best for me and the environment.

Well, I'm peeved, and I'm friends with three different local legislators, and they're all getting phone calls this weekend to let them know what I think of this horsepucky.  There is no way on this earth that I am going to let the bureaucrats force me to burn fossil fuels to heat my home when I have all the wood I can possibly handle and it's not a threat to the environment.  There is no net increase in carbon dioxide when you burn wood, it's carbon neutral (can't create something from nothing) and it's pure and simple discrimination against wood boiler owners.  There are no state regulations for woodstoves, fireplaces or outdoor barbecue pits - why me?

I could cuss a lot here but I won't.  I got some calls to make.   :(

Tom

Engineer,
While phone calls make you feel better and can happen quickly, they are even good if you are good friends with the politicians, they don't last long or create a record.

What you need to do is write letters.  Letters, especially those that indicate carbon copies to other people, require an answer and create a record.

Engineer

After my rant, I went and read the proposed new rule on the State's website.  It ain't a joke, but it won't affect indivdual owners.   Basically you won't be able to buy or install an outdoor boiler in Vermont if the manufacturer of the boiler doesn't have a certificate on it that says it has passed emissions testing. 

The State actually thought that the best option was to just ban them outright until the Feds pass their own rule (not happenin', folks).   Then they thought that maybe, that's bad for business (and the EPA wasn't about to take direction from the State of Vermont), so they thought that maybe they'll just make individual homeowners pay to have their furnaces tested and certified.  Say WHAT?  I know how much that costs, and it's cheaper to burn CASH in your (unregulated) fireplace.  So the "compromise" is to make the boiler manufacturers certify them or else no sales in VT.  That's nice.  That'll put the few dealers here out of business, and companies like Central Boiler could probably care less about the few dozen units they sell in VT compared to the rest of the country.   Granted, they want us owners to oppose the rule changes, and I do oppose them, but this needs to be a fair fight and the State is targeting only boiler owners and nobody else that burns wood.

Tom

It's a loaded cannon.

Who defines "emissions"?

SwampDonkey

I'll bet natural forest fires send more stuff in the air than all the houses in USA and Canada combined. There are 10,000's of acres in Canada alone burnt down each year. We lost about 700 acres this year in our tiny province and I think there was over 20,000 acres (a guestimate on my part) burnt in Saskatchewan (57 fires over 100 ha in size from government website). There have been some massive fires in Quebec also, we get the smoke off the bad ones down here.

Yukon Wildfires Change Air Quality World Wide

;D ;D ;D
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

bitternut

Gee, I wonder how much emissions there are in those fires that I noticed when flying to Florida. I guess that is OK because somebody in Florida and Georgia is going to graze cattle in those fields after they burn them off.

Ed_K

 Them fires down south, aren't for cattle to graze in. Its more like housing and industrial complexes. TAX INCOME, so its not polution.
Ed K

Don_Papenburg

Don't forget too mention in your letter that our armed forces are not put in harms way protecting our renuable enrgy .
Frick saw mill  '58   820 John Deere power. Diamond T trucks

wiam

I wonder if these are the "proposed regulations" I was told about 6 years ago when I put in my central boiler.  Our local state rep was running for office and stopped to "beg" for votes.  He said he was going to send me the proposed regulations.  He must still be too busy. :-\ :-\

Will

Vermonter

Engineer: Can you post a link to the proposals?  I might be able to twist some arms up here (or bear some, I'm still deciding).
New homestead

DanG

Some folks seem to have some funny ideas about what goes on in the South, and why.  Maybe you should check out the new poll at the top of the General Board and tell us where you get your news. ::) ;) :D :D :D
"I don't feel like an old man.  I feel like a young man who has something wrong with him."  Dick Cavett
"Beat not thy sword into a plowshare, rather beat the sword of thine enemy into a plowshare."

Engineer


Vermonter

September 27, 2005, 7:00pm Pavillion Building, Montpelier.  That's tomorrow, and I can't make it.  I'll whip off a letter tonight.
From the rulesheet, it looks like any new installation will need a bed next to the stove.
Does anyone know if any of the manufacturers would pass?
New homestead

karl

Got mine the other day also- there are form letters with it to send off to various politicians.

Seems like the energy being spent on this bill would be better used on something else.

Guess I better get more ammo if I'm gonna hafta defend my right to use less fossil fuel and stay warm ::)

I'm sure it would be much better for the environment if I were to buy oil to heat my house, shop, kiln and greenhouse and burned all my slabs in a big ole bonfire liberally dosed with diesel fuel to make it burn. ::)

Why is it that we are constantly represented by "do gooders" that don't like to be confused with facts or common sense after they have made up their minds?
"I ask for wisdom and strength, Not to be superior to my brothers, but to be able to fight my greatest enemy, myself"  - from Ojibwa Prayer.

Frank_Pender

Engineer, you might try and get in contact with the folks from Taylor Woodfired Furnaces.  They are in South Carolina, if I am not mistaken.  Senator Taylor's family are the folks that make that particual stove.   I know for a fact that there have been some issues here in some Oregon communities and it got solved real quick via the Taylor company.  Just a thought for you to consider.  Hope it turn for the better, real soon.
Frank Pender

Vermonter

Anyone feel like giving me a PM with some of the text of the letters from the manufacturers?
New homestead

Murf

A few of the local councils up here caused a big mess recently when they amended the "outdoor burning" by-laws to include outdoor wood furnaces.  :o

A few 'city' people who moved into the country didn't like the smell so they pressured council.

In several towns you can only burn during certain hours.
If you're going to break a law..... make sure it's Murphy's Law.

DonE911

I wonder if those regulations also apply to the "city folks" fireplace they love to look at??

ANMAN

nother Vermonter here and we were looking to get an outdoor furnace, i guess we build a "barn" around it so it'll be legal.  Sad that's becoming a new Vermonter tradition, skirting the insane laws and regulations.  For example when a neighbor's building caught fire, the owners didn't have money to properly dispose it, and they couldn't just have one big bon fire...so they got together and spent 2 weeks burning it piece by piece in giant stove.   Or a guy in town that couldn't get past zoning to have a new garage where his older one sat...well he made the new one right inside the old one and then took apart the old one! That really cheesed the flat lander officials.

It's sad that Vermont is no longer independent or sane... You can get any bill passed if you have some enough bumper stickers on your Volvo/Subaru when you show up at the state house to gripe about the environment being on its last legs.  The house and senate are so stacked with doughy headed liberals anyways, hell why not fund a commission to study the noxious gases and harmful fallout from burning fragile bio organisms from our ecosystem for 15 years just to delay the issue.

SwampDonkey

I'de like to see someone shut down my out door furnace when I'm trying to keep from freezing to death.  >:( I don't have one but, if I did...  >:(
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Frank_Pender

Swanmp Donkey, for me they would have to bring a lunch.  There would be no set down service and they might not even get a chance to take the first bite. ;D
Frank Pender

Vermonter

I just got this email back from my rep.  It mostly explains the proposed regulation, but there are a few nuggets of info in the reply.  I highlighted a couple of them.


Andrew

Thanks for the information.  Since I received your email I have been
communicating with ANR to learn more.  The rules are in response to over 50
complaints over four years from neighbors of folks who have these outdoor
burners.  The new rules would require newly installed systems to be less
polluting.


I asked ANR for a summary of the rules and the problem they are trying to
address. They responded saying "that due to concerns about the potential
health impacts and nuisances caused by outdoor wood-fired boilers, the
Agency of Natural Resources is proposing amendments to its Air Pollution
Control Regulations to reduce the amount of smoke and air contaminants
emitted from newly manufactured outdoor wood-fired boilers.  Exposure to the
smoke emissions from these boilers can cause or contribute to short-term
effects harms such as eye, nose, throat, and lung irritation, coughing and
shortness of breath, and may worsen asthma or trigger asthma attacks;
chronic exposure can cause long-term health effects such as asthma, heart
and lung disease, and cancer.  The smoke emissions and impacts from outdoor
wood-fired boilers are exacerbated by the poor combustion design and
efficiency of the units, their generally short "stub" stacks, and their
routine operation during the summer to heat domestic hot water, swimming
pools, etc.  Moreover, sales of outdoor wood-fired boilers around the
country and in Vermont have increased, and, unlike indoor wood stoves, these
units are not unregulated by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency.
Therefore, the Agency is proposing a new rule for outdoor wood-fired boilers
as well as some minor revisions to the existing rule.

The new rule would establish a particulate matter emission limit of 0.2
grains per dry standard cubic foot of exhaust gas corrected to 12% CO2 for
newly manufactured outdoor wood-fired boilers sold in Vermont or for
installation in Vermont.  The sale of outdoor wood-fired boilers in Vermont
or for installation in Vermont would be prohibited unless the Agency has
issued a certification to the manufacturer that the boiler complies with the
particulate matter emission limit.  In order to be certified, manufacturers
would be required to demonstrate by means of stack emission testing that
their outdoor wood-fired boilers comply with the emission limit.  The
proposed rule would also require each manufacturer to inform its dealers in
and around Vermont as to which of its boiler models have been certified by
the Agency as meeting the emission limit and thus may lawfully be sold in
Vermont or for installation in Vermont.

The new rule would not affect existing outdoor wood-fired boilers because it
only applies to newly manufactured outdoor wood-fired boilers.  Likewise,
the new rule would not apply to home woodstoves, indoor wood furnaces, or
maple sugaring operations.  In addition, the new rule exempts existing
stocks of outdoor wood fired boilers that have been purchased and received
from manufacturers prior to the proposed rule's implementation date.


Finally, the Agency is proposing some minor revisions to the existing rule
for outdoor wood-fired boilers, which establishes siting and stack height
requirements for outdoor wood-fired boilers installed after 1997.  The
proposed revisions include substituting the term "outdoor wood-fired boiler"
for the term "outdoor waterstove" and amending the definition of "outdoor
wood-fired boiler."  The existing rule would continue to apply to boilers
installed after 1997 that are not subject to the new rule."

They plan on holding another public hearing at 7:00 pm on October 17, 2005
at the Waterbury office complex Vermont Interactive Television site - seems
there are a lot of people with questions about the proposed rules.


I hope this information is helpful.

Sincerely,


xxxxxx
New homestead

twistedtree

Two quick comments.

1) It looks like the letter from your burner manufacturer accomplished it's goal.  You are now up in arms fighting for them.

2) I find the smell of flat landers objectionable.  Can be pass regulations to ban them?  We'll get 50 of us to sign a petition and be off to the state house.....

IndyIan

I for one think that having some sort of regulation and standards for outdoor boilers is a good idea.  I am a bit surprised Central Boiler is even fighting that, they seem to be one of the leaders in the industry and should be able to design a boiler that meets those regulations with out much difficulty.

Having some regulations will probably double the efficiency of the boilers and I don't know why anyone would complain about have to buy or cut half as much wood for the same amount of heat... ::)

Also if you've ever seen a kid have an asthema attack you might think twice about how innocent all that smoke is as well... 

Ian



beenthere

Indy
I have such an attack if I get into or around hay or straw dust. I can't expect the farmers to not combine oats or make hay because I've wandered into their territory. May not be a fair comparison.  I have a grand daughter who has a problem with asthma attacks. However she gets meds to take care of it and leads a pretty normal life.

To me the regs should address the issue, not the 'boiler'. The issue is what people put into their outdoor burners, IMO. Green wood, and stuffed full so it smolders for hours or days. That is the problem, and not one easily solved, the way I see it.

Lots of sides to this issue, and maybe drilling off the coast of CA for that oil is the next best thing short of getting the nuclear plants rebuilt and back on line.  ;)
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Thank You Sponsors!