High quality photos for tree identifying on-line?

[SPIKER]

Hi all:  I've been looking for a few good GOOD sites to help identify sub-species of trees.   Yes I can tell an ASH from an OAK and most varities of them but when it comes to identifying a sugar maple from a silver or hard & soft maples or green ash vs a white ash type thing.   One reason is I belive I have what appears to be red maples but I could be wrong and have sugar maples.   what mine appear to be is sort of some bastard tree as they don't seem to fit exactly any of the descriptions I have found so far.   this spring with the high winds ice storms and the like I have some 10 or so that have been topped out by the weather.   the trunks are mostly standing but they have a V usually 2/3 ~3/4 way up and one side or both sides have "Twisted" shearing off and falling mostly to the ground (still several widow makers hanging up there :( )    I also have 3 or 4 different types of OAK & cherry in the woods along with some unidentifiable trees which have been totally up rooted from the fact they were on the woods edge and in the silted in creek spot with ton's of ICE on a tree already leaning into the clearing they came out and out of the ground but didn't a one snap...   talking root balls in the 15' plus range and tree of 24~30" across & 80' high...   anyhow I've been looking at a lof of the ohio & other university s ites and have a packet on order from International Paper. (I worked for them in a cardboard container plant for a few months ) one of the better employee treating companies.

anyhow what I was hopping for is full page printable photos in high resolution.   I know a good book is what I need but the $ with gas prices is bad and the libary I don't belong to not to mention I already looked and wasn't happy with what I found.

any help would be great.

thanks Mark M :D

[Jeff]

Welcome to the forum Mark.

http://plants.usda.gov   I use it all the time.

[Kevin]

http://www.domtar.com/arbre/english/p_07.htm

[eldorado]

http://rnrstreamer.lsu.edu/ecosystems/webtour/listcommon.htm   :P :P

[SPIKER]

so far so good:  I'm still having probs finding these trees of mine for most part. I blive the 4 bigones are white ash that are blown over but didn't break or even bend much.   that last site elderado posted is still in-works but looks to be a great start with exactly what i've been looking for.

keep them comming if possable

MarkM

[SPIKER]

HI AGAIN

I still can't find the right photos to id the trees ssecies corectly.   the ones I', ;pplomg at have leaves which are very similar to black birch or a Elm spc ies but the bark doesn't resemble either...   bark is rough with a whiteish tint, leaves are singular  with 6 per twig & has a small bud at the inner stem to twig.   leaves are dual notched with smooth slghtly glossy upper surface  & semi smooth lower surface no hairs on the edge and the leave viens come together on each side in the center vein pretty even and run all way to the outter edge at tje longer poiny og yhr larger notch.   I'll post some photos later this week to see if there is a better info site someplace.

MarkM

[Ron Scott]

Maybe someone here can ID it from your photos. :P

[OneWithWood]

Mark,
Along with the photos of leaves and bark please describe the general shape of the tree.

[SPIKER]

Hi Everyone:

I been working at getting thephotos up on the web.   Here is the site for them and I'll keep editing the page with additional info as requested.
this is on my GF's high speed connection and there are several high res photos of the 2 trees I'm looking at right now.   the Oak I'm not sure of the species but I think maybe a white or burl oak>/  The other one is posssably Ash or Elm?   leaves are from 2" to 5" long and 1 to 4" wide.   Oak leaves are large 6"~10" long 2~4" wide   trunk of elm/ash is straight with a fork about 20' up on each one with crown of average size and shape for a hard wood forest.   it does spread out slightly and was growing on the edge of the woods in a slight ravine where the soil was deep and very wet.   the oak is upland in dry area has 4 or 5 main trunks branching from the bottom growing pretty straight up each one.   the bark on it is rather smooth with almost diamond shapped smooth patches zig zagging up it;s trunk.   

http://home.earthlink.net/~brendi63/

mark M

edited in:  Sorry for the high res download of the photos, I figured with low res photos noone could see what was actually on the photo :crazy:   I think most of those photos are over 2 meg each, that is about a 12 meg file then
MarkM

[Vermonter]

I use http://en.wikipedia.org.  It's a free online encyclopedia
For ash, http://en.wikipedia.orgwiki/Fraxinus
I hope these links work......

[Furby]

Sorry Mark, but on my fast dial up, I can't get the pics.
Second try brought up a total of 4 of them after a total of close to 15 minutes.
I'll let someone else look. ;)

[jayfed]

You might just have a hybrid red (soft) / sugar (hard) maple.  In our area there is the occasional sawlog in the woodyard that the bark speaks of one maple, but the inner bark and wood color speaks of another.

The wood of a healthy hard maple is 'very light' unless a large heart develops. The heart wood of the hard tends toward brown though at worse it can be almost black.  Red maple is a bit less lighter and has a reddish inner bark and the heartwood will be greyish if present, but can go black, too. Darker streaks can be present in the red maple wood.

Since you have likely been through the tree ID guides, the more obvious differences of the red having the serrated leaf edges, redder leaf stem and the red blunt buds vs. hard's smooth leaf edge and pointed brownish red buds might not be that apparent and thus the hybrid tree.

The forking of the trees tends towards the red maple, but it can be found in sugar maple, too. It seems to be linked to genetics from my local marking experience. Red maples with exposed seams tend to have them as a spiral around part of the trunk.

Silver maple in our area is limited to landscaping trees. It's leaves are deeply lobed compare to the red and hard maples. Not knowing where you are from, there might be some other maples of concern that I am not familar with.

Yooper-at-large

[Jeff]

My first impressions from the photos are Basswood, by looking at the bark in the first photos
http://www.cnr.vt.edu/dendro/dendrology/syllabus/factsheet.cfm?ID=88

and the second tree is definitly some sort of red oak, not white. Note thepointed lobes on the leaves. Also, the bark is classic red oak.

[Ron Scott]

I agee on the first being an American Basswood and the second being a Red Oak.

[SwampDonkey]

WOW, like Furby I couldn't even come close to loading that page. If I don't see images in under a minute I either click close or stop. ;D

[Vermonter]

I have a bit faster connection at work, and hadn't seen the photos until now.  I'll agree with the popular sentiment.

[Phorester]

SPIKER:

The top tree is an elm. Either American or slippery.

Bottom tree is a northern red oak.

[SPIKER]

It appears I ahve created a bit of a controversy

anyhow I'm not 100% sure one way or the other about SLIPPERY ELM or BASSWOOD on the first one.  I agree the 2nd is probaby a northern red oak.   I'm changing the photos later this week and will get some more tomarrow of some other items.

One more of the red oak & then maybe a few of some IRON wood, which I was wondering if there was much use for it other than firewood and chain saw torchure testing? ;) ;D

[Ron Scott]

I guess I didn't see all the photos of the first tree. After seeing the photos with the leaves which I assume are part of the tree in question, I would agree that that is an American Elm.

Do you have a standing tree photo??

[maple flats]

American elm and red oak. The elm will burn great after it is dry enough, also makes very tough planks for an equipment trailer deck. Will try to twist but if you fasten it good enough the deck will really last, may not work as good if the bark is starting to fall off after standing dead for a few years but before that the planks are real strong.

[SwampDonkey]

They used american elm here for under horse stalls, it stood up to the horse's constant treading.

[SPIKER]

Bth of the elms are still living even though they are over and nearly on the ground.   I do have several otehrs that are standing dead  (including onejust a few feet from these two that is a good 40" dia tree which was alive last season but dead this season :( )   it has a 20; log that will be more than my tractor can lift for sure maybe even more than it can drag?   I took some photos monday and promtly left the $500 digital camera in the trailer and left it at the farm   yes it is the WOMANS camera too boy did I get some &^%)#^% from her !  :-\  so you all belive it/them to be american elm not the slippery elm?   also note like I stated there are .lots of standing dead elm in the 10 ~20" dia range in the woods so far most have bee left standing as they stay drier.    in the recent storm I had 2 fall over (only after the maples fell on them) which are in the 16" butt dia range, are these any good for milling into flooring or are they too hard by this time?   I am considerint building some extra heavy duty log style furnature out of them for use in the yard/woods as benches.   no wood fire place just yet and already have some 10 cord laying around going to waste...  I've been taking some mental pitures of the crotches and mulling over the ends in my brain. ;)  the rest will be a bit harder but probably will be chain saw work for sure...

I'll take some photos once I get started. on that...  I spent all day monday & teusday in the woods cutting dead fall & storm damage and it only looks  more daunting a task :(  I have also been picking up red oak acorns & hickory nuts & spreading them into the areas that are less wooded than I like or where damaged trees will be coming down shortly.   Am I ODD for doing this or is this something others do too???   

MarkM

[Tom]

I'm always planting something, Mark.  I can't help but take chestnut white oak acorns in my pocket when I walk the property.  They are huge and the deer love them.  I figure since the middle of my property is designated as a wildlife passage on my management plan, food is more important than timber. :D

[SwampDonkey]

Make sure ya stick'm in the mud a couple inches so the animals don't eat'm all. I tried broadcasting acorns and didn't work. I planted a few and they were successful. Oak do good in aspen stands that have little under growth because they don't cast alot of shade. It's hard to find an aspen stand with clean forest floor though, usually alot of weeds underneath.  :

[Phorester]

"so you all belive it/them to be american elm not the slippery elm?"

These are not easy to tell apart.  Just my opinion, but I think you have a slippery elm.  The bark in your photo looks more like slippery to me than American.  But I have found that the same species of tree will look a little different in different geographical locations.

Slippery elm leaves are very rough.  (You probably know that the name comes from the slippery inner bark, not the leaves).  Slipper elm leaves feel like sandpaper to me.  If you rub them between your thumb and index finger, your finger will hardly slide along.  American elm leaves are not that rough.

Also, American elm has white vertical striations in the outer bark layer.  Slippery elm has brown striations.  You can see this if you cut a vertical slice out of the exterior bark.  Hold your knife perpendicular to the tree, like you were going to stab it, not alongside it.  This is only in the outer corky layer.  You don't have to cut into the tree itself.  These colors aren't all that bright, but with a little practice you can tell the difference between each species.

From a practical standpoint, though, we treat all elms the same here. Very little comercial value and we take them out of a forest whenever we can if there's a higher value species close by.