differences between swing blades

[lawyer_sawyer]

I have read both the Peterson site and the Lucas site and the D&L site and I was wondering if the swing blade owners could answer a few questions for me.

1.  What brand do you have and why did you choose it?
2. If you had it to do again would you do it the same ?
3. If you had any recommendations to people looking at swing blades what might they be?

I have tried to read as many links on swing blades also and it would be great to hear from the people who have experience in this area.

Thanks and sorry for such "newbie" style questions

[Fla._Deadheader]

I just got mine, used. It's a Peterson 8-9" WPF Model, narrow frame. It will accomodate a 5' dia. log.

  Why I bought it is, price (used), and it has a one winch raising and lowering, cutting down on time spent using 2 winches. I'm adding an electric drive to the winch and MAY rig up a feed drive. (I'm gettin old)  ;D ;D ;) Also has the high-low track attachment for rolling large logs inside the track, if needed.

  I like the design. Lucas is OK, just like things that Peterson has. Don't know much about D&L.

  Recommendations, Go find some and ask questions and maybe operate one. Only way to know for sure. Look for Forestry or Agri shows within driving distance.

[brdmkr]

I bought a Lucas 618. 

I bought a swing blade because I feel they are more portable (given I only have a Ford Ranger) than other types of mills, handle really large logs, and cut dimensioned lumber.  I bought a Lucas over a Perterson because of the price.  The way I will use the saw it should last me a lifetime with proper maintenance.  If I were to do it over again, I'd probably buy the same saw.  I am all about value and I think the Lucas is a good value.  If I were cutting for a living, I am not sure I'd make the same decision.  I like my Lucas, but I'd probably like the Peterson as well.  Don't know much about the D&L.  I'd get the videos, and try to see the mills in action.

[Arthur]

I bought a swinger after 5 years of looking at what was available.

I needed portability, reliability, able to cut anything I needed and most of all safety.

Although price is a consideration I wasnt looking for the cheapest just the best. Sames for the truck, bobcat, farm equipment, etc,etc.

D&L make two mills - their own transportable via trailer and the EcoSaw which is a swinger.  We ended up buying the EcoSaw because of its safety and its features which no other mill has.  Its the only one to swing 180degrees, and the only one to mill on the tapper of the log in 3D without moving either the log or the mill.  You can buy them in various configurations and are designed specifically to mill the log where it falls although we have a few additions for production milling in a static site.

Its not the cheapest.

You should contact D&L for their new video, visual explains much more.

arthur

[Tom]

Lawyer-Sawyer,

That's a smart thing to do, asking the users of the saws for their comments.   You will find that there is a lot of information to be gleaned from the posts and from asking the questions.  There will be a lot of people to offer suggestions.  It pays to be aware that some might have alternate agendas.   In all fairness,  We have some members who have financial  commitments with the saw companies in question.  I think I would take the opportunity to find which of those answering your questions are actually customers, as opposed to owners of companies or salesmen of products.

I'm not insinuating that you will receive bad information from these people, but, you never get the same information from a customer that you do from the salesman. :D :P

[Fla._Deadheader]

  Arthur, are you not the owner of Eco-Saw ???  I asked for that package back in January. Again in March. I saw you and Lindsay in Ohio, still no pkg. ??? 

  How can you offer advice concerning safest machine of all the swingers, when there are very few reported cases of unsafe things happening with the other Swingers ???

  I'm not wanting to get into an argument about the machines, just curious about how you have the best machine. How many are in the US ???

[beenthere]

I bought a swinger after 5 years of looking at what was available.
...........
Although price is a consideration I wasnt looking for the cheapest just the best............
..........  We ended up buying the EcoSaw ...................
arthur

    Like FDH, I thought you owned the EcoSaw company, but in this 'quote' you seem to come on like you are just a real satisfied 'buyer'.  Hmmmm?  I guess you should be 'satisfied' if you own the company that made the saw you 'bought'.  Did you get a real good deal on it  ???   Is this a hidden sales pitch? Or does it just appear that way?  Sorry, but your original posts indicate you 'are' EcoSaw.  ;)

Haven't heard from any EcoSaw owners yet on what they think of the EcoSaw.  Maybe I missed that somewhere, and I can be led there.. 
Maybe........

[Part_Timer]

Hi 

I have the Peterson 8" ATS with a 25hp Kohler and lap sider.  I emailed Captain and asked him if there would be a Peterson at the shootout that I could try and run.  not only would he let me run one he told me to bring my own log and we'd cut it up.  I had some conserns about running Osage through one but Craig told me to load it in the truck and bring some along  If it would not do it then I knew not to buy one.  I figured that if they would let me bring my own logs then it must be as advertised.  I did not have a log but they let me have a run on one and Ga_Boy spent a lot of time answering all my questions.

Everyone at Petersons was more than helpful in getting the mill through customs and they called a week after I had the mill to check and make sure I got it together.

If I had to do it again the only thing I'd do different would be to have bought it sooner and maybe a slabber attachment.   : :

the only recomendation I have is the same with any mill  BUY ALL THE HP YOU CAN AFFORD.  I'd skip some of the extras and buy more hp up front and then go back and pick up the attachments later.  We cut some 6" hedge boards and I'm real glad for the extra hp.

I have no financial  commitments  to Peterson's I'm just a happy customer

Tom

[Wife]

Welcome lawyer_sawyer. Please keep with this thread, and ignore the "bumps" that happen now and again. Generally, mill owners and company owners get on very well here, as there are usually great benefits from both sides. As the CEO of Petersons Global, I feel my position is to assist sawmill owners to get the best out of their sawmills, irregardless of the brand. Once you have the sawdustitis bug, it doesn't matter where you got it from! It matters that you enjoy what you are doing. So my staff and I are here for any questions you may have.

And I will leave the personal comparisons on each machine's abilities, to the real owners who give real feedback. To that end, thank you so far to Fla_Deadheader and Part_timer - your feedback is greatly appreciated by many, as well as us!

[Arthur]

    Like FDH, I thought you owned the EcoSaw company, but in this 'quote' you seem to come on like you are just a real satisfied 'buyer'.  Hmmmm?  I guess you should be 'satisfied' if you own the company that made the saw you 'bought'.  Did you get a real good deal on it  ???   Is this a hidden sales pitch? Or does it just appear that way?  Sorry, but your original posts indicate you 'are' EcoSaw. ;)

Haven't heard from any EcoSaw owners yet on what they think of the EcoSaw.  Maybe I missed that somewhere, and I can be led there.. 
Maybe........

real satisfied owner of an EcoSaw 4 years before buying the company.  I paid FULL retail price with ALL the additional components and bits that could be supplied.  I got everything I could. Multi catch, Slabbing attachment, sanding attachment. leg extentions, rail extention, full toolbox and the certified training supplied by Queensland Univeristy.

The owner of EcoSaw approached me as I beleive the the philosophy of the company and promoted the EcoSaw for years before I even bought one.  Graeme only sold the company due to injury to his arms during an industrial accident.  He wanted the company to continue as he also beleives in it so asked me to buy even though he had many other offers at a greater return to him.

Like they say 'I liked the product so much I bought the company'.

I posted and answered relevant to the posted question.

Now if Jeff would allow a sales pitch Id be happy to comply.  Best you email and request one.

EcoSaw originaly Lewisaw was started 17 years ago.  I stated here the reason I bought a swinger and the make I bought as an owner of a swinger.  I still mill whenever possible with it but have found that the company takes most of my time.  With D&L Doublecut now manufacturing most of the mills sold I hope to have more time to get back to milling.

I have 2 cabins and a shop to build so have many hours of milling to look forward to.

1. What brand do you have and why did you choose it?
2. If you had it to do again would you do it the same ?
3. If you had any recommendations to people looking at swing blades what might they be?

I do believe that these where the original question???  I didnt answer them fully as that would have been a sales pitch. 

arthur

PS most EcoSaw owners live in PNG or extreamly remote areas with no access to even phones so you wont see many on the FF although they will be coming.

[lawyer_sawyer]

Thank you all for your answers and please for those who haven't had a chance to answer please keep them coming.

Tom Thank you for your advice on watching for sales pitches  ;D.  My undergraduate degree is in Marketing/Sales and so I am a little cynical about what all people say in regards to things they personally use.  I believe everything that is said I just tend to take it with a grain of salt.  but thank you again.

Wife Thank you for your response.  It is nice to see that your company is there for all people who run swing blades.

I had not read much on the EcoSaw so that is another saw for me to read up on.   

If I could focus my questions with another question.
If I was to compare the ability of a Bandmill and a Swing Blade what could I do with one and not the other.  I mean by this that If I was to buy a SwingBlade what cut or advantage would I be sacrificing by not buying a Bandmill.  Is it speed, waste, variety, size.  Please any answers would be appreciated.

[lawyer_sawyer]

I guess I have read some on the Eco Saw but I couldn't remember where so I will be looking at it again on the D&L site.  thanks again for all the answers

[Ianab]

If I could focus my questions with another question.
If I was to compare the ability of a Bandmill and a Swing Blade what could I do with one and not the other.  I mean by this that If I was to buy a SwingBlade what cut or advantage would I be sacrificing by not buying a Bandmill.  Is it speed, waste, variety, size.  Please any answers would be appreciated

At that point we have to ask... what are you going to be sawing?
If it's nice tidy 12" hardwood logs then a bandmill may well be a better option. The swingblade will cut them OK, just not with the clear advantage it has if you are wanting to cut 48" dia softwood into 4x2s. Had a chance to look at some different mills at the local fieldays, there were only 2 bandsaws there out of about 12 mills. Mostly due to the big ugly logs we normally get to play with. The Lucas and Mahoe mills were cutting knobby Mac Cypress logs like I normally get to play with.. with no problems. The LT40 would have struggled with them, and the LT 15 would have been squashed...

The swingblades generally offer better 'bang for the buck' if you are sawing larger logs. Also if you are comparing a fully hydralic bandsaw you have to compare it to a fully Auto swingblade which is a very impressive beast.

Cheers

Ian

Disclaimer -  I own an older model Peterson but have no shares in the company  ;)

[TN_man]

1. My son has a Peterson ATS 827, which he choose over the Lucas because he felt that they were better made and engineered.
2. We would probably get the WPF for the ease of getting logs in and set on the bunks and the increased speed, but he did not have enough money to afford the difference.
3. I would recommend looking at your market. What are you trying to cut? Swingblades excel on the the large logs but are not very efficient on the small logs, in my opinion. They are very simple to operate and make very nice lumber (most customers comment on the clean straight cuts). They can wear you out by the end of a long day.
Comparision- I own a Woodmizer and my son owns the Peterson so I see the differences side by side.
The band mill is easier to cut for grade and is easier to load logs on to. With the Peterson we can spend as much time loading logs as we can cutting them. We can cut very quickly and not jepordize the quality of the lumber with the Peterson but have a hard time keeping the logs coming as quick. We have got where we use the the Peterson on all the large logs(18'' or above) and the Woodmizer on all the small logs. We put the Peterson in the back of the truck and pull the Woodmizer along to go on to custom jobs. Each mill has its niche.

[brdmkr]

I have never used a band mill, but I have watched them work.  I must agree that I spend as much, if not more, time getting logs into position than I do cutting.  Once I am cutting, I think the swing mill is considerably faster than a band mill.  You can also cut wider boards with a band mill, but you can saw larger logs with the swing blade.  If I were rich, I'd buy both 8)

[Part_Timer]

Try getting a hold of woodbeard.  I think he just switched from a swing mill to a band mill. One of the big reasons for me was I don't have to take the chainsaw and quater big logs to get them to fit on the LT15 anymore. We don't have a skid steer or tractor so rolling/loading quaters was a pain.

[Ernie]

This is a similar post that might interest you

https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=13293.0

[Arthur]

TN_man hit the nail on the head.

Both band and swingers have their place.  If you have the money and the milling requirements both would be nice with a scrag mill and an edger as well.

To get the most out of value adding you sould also have some sort of kiln and dressing facilities.  Taking the log to the finished product and cutting out the middle men.

All depends on what you want out of milling!!!

You will find that when the bug gets you the 'Home Improvements' effect happens.

arthur

[Captain]

No sales pitch from me  ;D

I'll answer your technical questions, however 

Captain

[Jeff]

yer da man captain.

[woodbeard]

When I got my Peterson, I was choosing between it, a Lucas, and the Brand X sawmill.
The Brand X is another swingblade type mill worth mentioning here. Here's a link to their site: www.brandxsawmills.com  I was leaning towards the X, but at that time he did not have a portable version. I think I mainly liked the fact that it is American made, and comes with log bunks with dogs.
My interest in the Lucas was mainly the price- I could afford a new one, and pick it up from Bailey's here in TN. But I really did not like the two point raising system, and having to turn the whole carriage around to make a double cut.
So, I kept a vigilant eye out for a used Peterson and eventually found one. I got a lot of good use out of it, mostly stationary, mobile a few times. It is indeed portable, and can be packed pretty far into the woods if necessary, but it is a lot of work to move.
This thread contains the reasons I eventually decided to get a bandmill:
https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=13389.0
I still think the Peterson is a great saw, and I'm glad I had the experience of running it, It was a good way for me to get into the sawing addic.. umm I mean business. :  :D

[NZJake]

Gidday Lawyer sawyer,

I'll give you some of my thoughts... If you take your time and edge really well, a bandsaw should beat a circular on recovery, its most upfront advantage would have to be thinkerf and the abillity to cut wide boards, some people say they prefer the band finish also, straight lines accross the board rather then little arcs ( :-\ I like the arcs). I can also see some advantages to being trailerised, set up time is reduced (could someone clarify to me how long it takes you guys to set up your trailerised mills? I'm thinking, unhitching, levellers and whatever else you have to do for a typical job?). Ussually takes anywhere from 10mins-40mins to setup a swinger depending on the model ie fully automatic or basic. I can see having hydraulics for a bandsaw as being important, turning, dogging and levelling your log, I would consider these little toys to be fun to use also having advantage.

Having used a bandsaw at one of our overseas agents shop I felt that it was very difficult to cut to order, the customer was requesting an array of sized boards, I found it very hard to calculate for kerf-flip-clamp-rotate for variating sized boards, however I did get a very good handle on things when shooting for the same sized stock. Simplicity of operation is what I am getting at, I feel that operation is simpler on a swinger. Another thing I noted was the incredible tension release from squaring up a log, the swingblade differs in it's principle of cut in that it eats away at tensioned logs bit by bit reskimming as it goes, this too I feel is definately an advantage. I like the abillity to put the swinger on the back of your truck deck saving your trailer for timber at the end of the day. I'm not going to get into any depth here I just thought I might throw in a few ideas as I feel you have asked a very genuine question in regard to the difference of a band to a swingsaw. 

Before I get 'busted out' I better mention that I'm a fellow Peterson, although I believe myself to be a fully qualified sawyer  . Felled my first 'big' trees just the other weekend, gets the old heart pumping when you start to hear the crack (thats gotta mean I'm a genuine feller right? ).

[Part_Timer]

Hay Jake

define "big tree"

Where's the pictures?


Tom

[Arthur]

jake

If you combine an edger with your bandsaw you can get a very high recovery if the log is uniform.  I find that in Australia a good portion of logs are not uniform and get a better recovery by swingers.

very much swings and roundabouts.  If you have the milling requirements and the cashflow to allow it both are the best option.

having said that we have supplied to a number of traditional mills that due to new regulations can no longer rip the big logs down manually with a chainsaw so all they do is use an adapted slabbing mill to cut the log in half and then process it through their normal system.  Its a waste of the swingers capacity but its what they have and the way they want to work so cant convince them of the benefit of using a proper swinger.

you might find those with big bandsaws that have even bigger logs might use a swinger frame in the same manner.

easy modification to make to the slabbing device.  You just need to have it adjustable to the maximum depth cut you need for the bandmill.  If the bandmill can do 14" then thats the depth cut you need.

arthur

[pigman]

NZ Jake asked "could someone clarify to me how long it takes you guys to set up your trailerised mills? I'm thinking, unhitching, levellers and whatever else you have to do for a typical job?)."
On most job sites I can be ready to saw in 10 minutes. On steep ground I have taken 30 minutes or longer to set up to saw. I run a Wood-Miser 40hd.