BANDSAWMILLS VS. CIRCULAR SAWMILLS

inveresk · September 03, 2005, 04:02:13 PM

I'm new to the forum. I'e recently bought eleven acres of which about six is under woodland, mainly fir with some cedar and maple. It's been neglected and I need to develop a woodland management plan and to thin the woodland and construct some access paths through it. A good deal of the trees are pretty big and I want to take out enough this season to build a barn and re-fence the farm. I've pretty much decided to buy a sawmill rather than contract out the work but am not sure whether a bandsawmill such as the Woodmizer or circular sawmill such as the Lucas would be best. I see the advantage of quarter cutting all the quality logs but it seems there is the disadvantage of having a larger kerf as a penalty for doing this. How big an advantage is quarter sawing? Does it depend on the quality of the lumber? What are the merits and disadvantages of each type of mill? Although I don't need the mill to be particularly portable, it would be an advantage. I'd appreciate any advise that will help me make an informed decision.

Tom · September 03, 2005, 04:19:16 PM

Welcome to the Forestry Forum Inveresk.

Circle saws are fast.
Bandsaws are slower.

Circle saws have wider kerfs.
bandsaws don't turn so much into sawdust.

Circle saws are production oriented
Bandsaws (todays portables) are custom saw oriented.

Swing saws or Beam saws(Peterson, Lucas or D&L are developed more for portability, creating dimensional lumber and not being as limited to log size as the others.

Those are just some "nuts" that are generally on the list when talking about the different saws.

To say which one is best for you, only you can decide.

Circle Saws require a lot of setup and are usually stationary. Once in place, they can put a lot of lumber on the ground.

Swing saws really shine where you have logs 30" and bigger in diameter. There claim to fame is that you don't have to move the log. They also allow flat sawing and quarter sawing at will.

Band Saws are known for the ability to create wide boards, smooth finishes and accurate lumber. The more labor saving devices you can get on the mill the easier it is to handle the logs and the boards. The were developed to use little labor and be portable. They shine in log diameters of 10 to 30 inches.

There are many threads on the forum already that compare the mills. While I'm sure this one will produce good information, a search of the rest of the forum will be quite lucrative. Don't forget to click on the Sponser links on the left of the page.

Ernie_Edwards · September 03, 2005, 05:00:42 PM

Welcome to the Forestry Forum. You will boggled with the wealth of knowledge here.

When I was interested in having my own sawmill, and had absolutely no experience, I looked into a circle mill. A little intimidating to a guy who sailed a desk all his life

For me I felt a bandsaw would be a safer setup and still feel that way, especially if you are going to be kinda teaching yourself to fulfill your hobbiset interests.

But I have no experience here with the swing mills.

Guess my only thoughts are for you to watch the mills all in action and see which can do the job you need and keep you safe while doing it.

But safety is really a state of mind balanced with a critical eye.

Whichever you choose be careful and never take any chances.

Good luck,

Ernie Edwards

DonE911 · September 03, 2005, 05:03:37 PM

Welcome to the forum.

Tom covered stuff pretty good and going back to previous post will shed some light on issues such as band sharpening vrs sharpening on a swing mill or circle. Band cost to replace vrs replacing a circle blade or having the circle blade doctored.

There is also several types of chainsaw mills. Slower than the bands and swingers but cut really nice lumber.

I currently have a Logosol M7 and it does a good job, just not real fast. This time next month I will have a Peterson 8) 8)

I can't believe Tom forgot to warn you about buying a sawmill. You will catch sawdustitis and will never be without one again.

inveresk · September 03, 2005, 06:30:47 PM

Thanks for those initial comments, fellas, which are really helpful. Tom, that was a particularly useful comparitive list.

I've had a quick look at the archive and there are some informative posts to be trawled through which I'll undertake when I can find a minute. From the little I did glean, I'm beginning to think the contest is between a swinger and bandsaw. I'll do some more homework after which you can expect a pile of dumb ass questions.

Thanks again . . .

George

D._Frederick · September 03, 2005, 06:46:39 PM

Inv-.,

There is a number of things that you didn't tell us: 1) How much do you want to spend. 2) How old are you and what is your physical condition. These will determine what saw will fit you best.
The band mill start at about about 7k and go to the low 40K range. The swing mills go from about 7K to about 18 K. The big circle mill, a used manual start about 3k and a new one can be in the 70-80 k range

The small manual mill require a lot of hard work and you need good knees and a strong back, and a good heart. If you have a lot of $$$ and want to hire a lot of help, then you can over look the physical part.

Part_Timer · September 03, 2005, 06:53:24 PM

Don you decided on the peterson. Congratulations which one did you end up ordering?? Did you get your siding attachment???

Part_Timer · September 03, 2005, 07:09:59 PM

Iveresk

welcome to the forum. There are a couple of good threads that helped me to decide which swing mill to get and they would probably help you decide which to choose between. I like my swng mill better than my band mill but everyone has their own taste. I like being able to cut lap siding and qsawn at will and cut off a small strip of knots to keep them out of a board Today I am cutting walnut and can edge the sap wood off without having to keep flipping the log ;D

woodbeard · September 03, 2005, 07:25:58 PM

Hi Inveresk, and welcome! What size trees are you planning to take out? You mention thinning, so I am guessing you will be cutting the smaller, lower grade ones? I recently switched from a swingblade mill to a bandmill. One of the reasons was that I end up with mostly smaller logs which I found frustrating to saw on the swingmill. Cedar epecially, because it is so light and difficult to keep the log from moving.
Initially, though, I chose it over a bandmill because of the mills available in my price range, the swingmill was the easiest to get a log onto.

Arthur · September 03, 2005, 08:17:51 PM

Well said Tom.

The only thing you missed when comparing the band and swingers is although the band has a smaller curf the swinger gets a higher recovery from the log, especially with the bigger logs and with the new dogs that are appearing you can hold the small logs well. I expect that all swingers will deal with small log handling efficeintly sometime soon.

You normally end up with about the same amount of sawn timber so its your choice and preference. I think that most serious millers end up with both types.

The only tool I dont have at the moment is a bandsaw so when Ive finished with the MiniMill bandsaw is next. We have designed already just need the time to do it. Will only be a medium size but will be good for those furniture makers.

arthur

inveresk · September 03, 2005, 11:45:20 PM

In answer to D. Frederick's questions:
1) I'll spend enough to get a mill to do the job right but don't need bells and whistles. Once the barn is built and the place re-fenced, I have a house to move and remodel which will require some lumber but following, the mill is unlikely to get only occasional use. The lower end of the price scale is what I'm hoping for but I'll also consider used machinery.
2) I'm in early fifties, fit and strong and don't have any health issues. Hard work isn't be a problem.

George

Tom · September 03, 2005, 11:52:55 PM

Keep an eye on the "For Sale" area of the Commerce section. (Scroll to the bottom of the forum)

You never know what will end up there.

There is a Wood Mizer LT30 and an Lt40 in there now.

inveresk · September 03, 2005, 11:55:18 PM

Part Timer, the stuff I'll be taking out will vary from small stuff for fence posts up to about 30" dia. I would estimate that the majority of the stuff for milling would be in the 12-20" range, mostly fir. I'd like to be able to make siding and shingles so attachments that provided for this would be a bonus. I've one other building, a heritage cottage currently used as a museum which I want to restore. I'd like to be able to run some siding to match the existing profile.

Tom, thanks for the heads up on the Woodmizer. I'll check it out.

George

inveresk · September 04, 2005, 12:10:31 AM

I had a local guy offer to build me a custom bandsawmill, 28" dia, 17' track, honda 13hp motor, but I was wary - if something breaks, where do I go for spares.

Looking at those ads., I realise I don't have any idea of the correct value for the stuff and wouldn't know a deal if it came my way. I have other stuff to do on the farm in the short term so can try to get up to speed on values by keeping an eye on what's for sale and for how much but is there any shortcut to assessing value?

George

Tom · September 04, 2005, 12:25:19 AM

The mills hold their value real good. A good rule of thumb for a mill in good condition is within 3 thousand dollars of the retail for the year it was sold. That's not Gospel for every mill but it is a good ball-park starting figure.

DanG · September 04, 2005, 02:11:59 AM

Welcome, Inveresk! Take a look at www.sawmillexchange.com to get a good idea of what different mills are selling for.

inveresk · September 04, 2005, 09:10:33 AM

DanG, that was a really helpful site which I'll drop into frequently, see if something fairly close to home comes up.

Thanks for the rule of thumb on value, Tom. If only my car held its price as well as those mills. . .

George

Minnesota_boy · September 04, 2005, 09:32:47 AM

I'm going to buck the trend. With only 6 acres wooded and not planing on a major cut, buying your own mill may not be the best economics. You may be much farther ahead to find someone who does custom cutting to come in and saw for you, using the expertise they have gained over years of sawing instead of making all your own mistakes. Let them recoup some of the cost of their mill in exchange for the knowledge they have about the woods you have.

If you really want to own a mill, by all means indulge yourself. The sawdust will get in your blood and you'll want to keep on sawing for the rest of your life. It isn't a bad addiction, but be forewarned that it is likely to happen. 8)

TexasTimbers · September 04, 2005, 10:01:38 AM

Quote from: inveresk on September 03, 2005, 11:45:20 PM
2) I'm in early fifties, fit and strong and don't have any health issues. Hard work isn't be a problem.
George

George,
I don't doubt that one bit, still, IMHO, do NOT buy a manual bandsaw. It's not just the hard work (and you'll get PLENTY of it) it's also about time. They are S - L - O - W!. At our age, time is much more important than a few dollars.
You will hear some guys swear by them, but I just don't cotton to it. I am 46, fit, strong, and I don't mind saying tough as a boot, but it ain't about that at all. Even small light cedars will wear you out at the end of the day, and one big log can hurt you really bad before you get high on that learning curve.
Take minnesota_boy's advice .... if you can't afford hydraulics (yes, yo DO need some bells and whistles) hire out the cutting.
If you absolutely insist on a manual mill, I will sell you mine for a good price, because I've already made the mistake.
Kevin.

Swing_blade_Andy · September 05, 2005, 09:02:07 AM

He George

My Lucas mill is still for sale and I will be in Britian in a week with it on tow.

If you are interested let me know. Send me your phone number and I will call.

you can see my mill in action at the following gallery

http://gallery55364.fotopic.net/c148726.html

I can help you a lot with milling as I am sure my mates here on the forum will certify.

Andrew

inveresk · September 05, 2005, 07:32:41 PM

There are three sawyers on the island here so I'll certainly get some prices. I wanted to go at my own pace in harvesting thus the preference to buy but I accept that might be a costly option.

Andrew, I've already replied to your separate email advising I'm in BC so won't be looking for a mill in europe. If you're selling, you might get some interest from Ulrich Loening of Lothian Trees and Timber near Edinburgh. I don't have their number to hand but drop me another email and I'll forward it if you want to follow this up.

Kevin, thanks for your view on a manual mill. So far I'm just assimilating information and haven't made any hard and fast decisions. A mill is a fair chunk of change so I'll take my time and make sure I've considered the decision from all sides. Thanks, everyone, for making this process so much quicker and more enjoyable. The forum is a great help and I appreciate the different views and value the collective expertise.

George

inveresk · September 05, 2005, 07:57:38 PM

Kevin, if you're serious about selling your mill, can you drop me an email at g@inveresk.net with details? I'm not sure about shipping from Texas - too far for me to come to collect - but if all else stacks up, I can readily check out haulage charges.

George

TexasTimbers · September 06, 2005, 07:51:55 AM

Inveresk,

Yes I will be glad to email you. I checked your profile but didn't see where you live. I haven't checked out from where your blue flag with the white X hails, but it don't look like it's in north America ;)

If

Quote from: inveresk on September 05, 2005, 07:32:41 PM
There are three sawyers on the island here

What Island are you on?

inveresk · September 06, 2005, 10:45:42 AM

Saltspring island. If we did a deal, I'd get the mill shipped to WA, shipper usually have depots in Bellingham or Tacoma (Bellingham's best) and collect it from there myself.

inveresk · September 06, 2005, 10:50:31 AM

The flag is the St. Andrew's cross. I'm a Scot, moved to Canada in 2003. In Scotland I ran a small group of companies near Edinburgh specialising in low environmental impact design and construction (I'm an architect) until I moved to Canada in 2003. Have been trying to decide what to do since I got here. Buying the farm means I have an excuse to defer that decision for another 3 or 4 years.