Question about Japan gray market tractors

brdmkr · August 29, 2005, 07:12:15 PM

I am in the market for a small tractor (less than 50 hp). I have been considering Japan-made gray market tractors. I only know one person who has one of these and he loves his. It seems that when I ask local farmers, they all say to buy name-brand US, but none of them have actually owned one of these gray markey tractors. When I look online, all of the vendors say how great they are. Some claim their tractors are better than others, some talk bad about vietnam refurbs, etc. etc. I know that when someone has something to sell, they will tell you how good it is and their competitors will tell you how bad they are. So, if any of you have first-hand experience with Yanmar, Mitsubishi, or Hinomoto tractors, please weigh-in. Did you buy refurbed or just used without refurb? Have you had any problems? Have you been able to find parts when needed? Do you like the tractor overall? Any other comments are also welcome.

I will be using the tractor for bush hogging, tilling, and maybe dragging a few logs (nothing big).

Thanks for your help.

tnlogger · August 29, 2005, 07:36:16 PM

brdmkr i've used one of the small Yanmars with a tiller 15HP i think good for the garden but they are real light. and i'm not sure on the parts. just my 2cents but an 8N ford with a loader can be bought cheep good dependable tractor

Tom · August 29, 2005, 07:45:54 PM

Gray market tractors have the reputation of having difficult-to-find parts that are not like their American made counter-parts. They also may have basic design differences which can make the use of readily available implements impossible.

I know of two intimately. One lost its hydraulic pump and a new one couldn't be found that would fit the tractor.

The other lost a starter and one is not available. It had a carburation problem and neither carbs or kits were available. This was on top of its having a power take-off that turned the wrong way. Both tractors have been sitting in the woods for 3 or four years now. They are considered boat anchors and the owners won't even sell them.

I would be real leary of buying a gray market tractor.

bitternut · August 29, 2005, 08:02:21 PM

Here is a link to a forum that is all grey market tractors. You should be able to find the info you are looking for there.
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/postlist.php/Cat/0/Board/greym

I don't have any first hand experience with any of these tractors but I think you will find that most of them were not designed for the US market and may not have the same features.

I would rather buy a used tractor that was designed for the US and is a name brand that has a dealer network available for parts.

DonE911 · August 29, 2005, 09:39:03 PM

I have a small ( 13 hp ) satoh 4x4 ( mitsubishi ) Its a great little tractor for what it is and is surprisingly strong. The pto is reverse rotation, so not many implements are available and the 3pt is cat 0, but can easily lift and use a cat 1 box blade if you modify the hitch conections.

Parts are more costly, but available from far away dealers via the net.

I am considering a larger and newer tractor. I wont be looking at the grey markets this time, but I wont be getting rid of my little guy either.

Don_Papenburg · August 29, 2005, 10:45:04 PM

I have one a Yannmar ,disquised as a John Deere 850 . Ifd you plan to bush hog you need to getas close to 50 hp as possable. My 850 is kinda crude does not have live pto and is slightly under powered. It also has a week pto geardrive ,as I will have to tear it apart this winter and fix the gears that broke this spring. It does the job but I think that the new 4000 series deere would make a much better tractor.

DanG · August 29, 2005, 10:58:13 PM

Mike, if I was shopping for a tractor in the 50hp range, I'd look for a Massey Ferguson 65 or 165, or a Ford 4000. Parts are readily available for them, and they are a whole heap more tractor than the old "n" series Fords or the lower end Japanese tractors. Less money, too. A lot of people like the old 8n's, but I don't. They will do a lot of work, but so will you!

Don_Papenburg · August 29, 2005, 11:08:46 PM

Forgot about those old masseys . Those were a good tractor. definate improvement over an old ford 8n 9n or what ever.

brdmkr · August 29, 2005, 11:33:53 PM

I would consider an 8n, but everyone I know that has owned one spent a good bit of time working on them. Of course I have never heard any of them complain about parts availability. I have located an old Massey ferguson 35. I think they are around 40 HP. It will likely work if it is in good shape. Still, those Japanese tractors sure look good.

isawlogs · August 29, 2005, 11:50:48 PM

I have a Satoh beaver 4x4 ... there are good little tractor ... up till you need parts . Taht beeing said I also have a Oliver 550 ... parts are available fopr this from most tractor shops . We had a massey 35 and they are a good machine , parts are still readily available for it , and there are lots of used parts out there for them , should not be hard to get what ever you need for this if in it needs anything ..

DanG · August 29, 2005, 11:55:37 PM

How much they asking for that 35, Mike? I'm not sure if it has a live pto or power steering. I wouldn't have a tractor without those.

Paul_H · August 30, 2005, 12:02:09 AM

Mine doesn't have power steering. DanG,what is "live pto"?

isawlogs · August 30, 2005, 12:04:19 AM

Dan .. if my memory aint failling me ... the 35 has the same rear end as the 135 ... so it has live pto ... power steering was an option ... one we did not have on ours

Paul_H · August 30, 2005, 12:10:06 AM

Yeah Marcel,mine has a pto and I can put it in neutral or engage with a pull of the lever.It seems to work well for brush hogging and rotovating.

It turns hard but sharp 8)

ScottAR · August 30, 2005, 12:14:05 AM

The yanmars might be allright... I've got a great one disgused as a JD 1050. Parts are the tricky part. I'd steer clear of em unless I could find an american duplicate machine. Example Small JD 50series are yanmar. Mistu made some small Case/IH. Shinbaura made some small ACs... etc...

isawlogs · August 30, 2005, 12:20:58 AM

Paul
... does yours have double action on the loader ... ours did not ... boy did that thing ever come down quick ... and if you had anything in the loader .. you best be rolling the wheels if you wanted to turn anywhere .
Lve PTO
is if you can have the PTO turn while having the clutch pedal depressed but not all the way down , enough to stop tractor from rolling but not the PTO ... a two clutch system . I aint to good at xplaning in english but I do know what I mean ;)

DanG · August 30, 2005, 02:04:20 AM

You got it right, Marcel. It's like a two-stage clutch. Push it half way and it disengages the wheels from the engine, so you can stop without stopping the implement. Push it all the way, and it disengages the pto, too. With a regular single clutch, the pto remains connected to the wheels, so if you have a big rotary mower on, the enertia of the blades will continue to push the tractor forward. That ain't good around ditches and in tight places.

Also, the hydraulic pump works off the shaft, so when you clutch, you lose pressure. It is just DanG inconvenient!

Also, most of the tractors with a "dead" clutch are either a lot older, or a lot smaller. You can go just about anywhere with a mid-sized one that you can go with a smaller one.

Rod · August 30, 2005, 08:55:21 AM

I went and looked at all the new tractors,and I decied on a New Holland.I bought my first new one in 96 and ran it 8 hours a day for 4 years and then i sold it in 1 day and got half my money back.I never bought anything for it but tires that I can remember.They had an easy payment plan too at the ford dealer.

brdmkr · August 30, 2005, 09:01:32 AM

DanG

The guy wants 2,500 for the M-F 35. He says it has less than 10 hrs on a complete rebuild. However, it is only a 30 hp. I had assumed that HP would be similar to the 235 (I don't know why). I suppose I am still interested, but not as much. Price still seems reasonable, but I am not in a hurry to buy and he is about 4 hrs away. Given I'd have to pay to have it delivered or rent something to pick it up, I am thinking I might want to do a little more looking in this area. Besides, that is a long way to go to find out there is something about the tractor that I don't like.

johnjbc · August 30, 2005, 11:20:59 AM

On a Case 530 the second clutch is worked by a lever. Is starts or stops the tractor. The foot clutch stopped everything. The only problem was that you couldn't shift without using the main clutch or the gears ground.

DanG · August 30, 2005, 11:34:56 AM

Since you're not in a big hurry, you should be able to find something locally. I'll keep my eyes peeled.

isawlogs · August 30, 2005, 02:01:14 PM

I knew I could count on you Dan to put my thoughts in your words ;D

I am also sure that you can get someting closer to home if you aint in a hurry . There are lots of those tractors out there ... just need one that needs a new home . ;)

Frickman · September 04, 2005, 01:46:13 PM

brdmkr,

Yanmar and Mitsubishi really aren't grey market tractors. They are legitimately produced in Japan and imported into this country for sale. I know folks who own them and they are great machines. A grey market tractor is a tractor made overseas that is an identical copy of say a John Deere or Ford, and then imported into this country. From what I've learned about it they're basically infringing on someone else's patents, in other words, they're counterfeit. The major equipment companies that they copy want nothing to do with them. Most reputable folks in agriculture advise you to stay away from them.

I farm some along with the wood business and I only buy John Deere and Ford/New Holland. Why? I can get any part I need within a day or two, and the company stands behind their machine. I might pay more upfront, but over the long haul I pay less per hour of use by buying top of the line equipment.

Robert_in_W._Mi. · September 04, 2005, 09:34:47 PM

"Live PTO" means the pto shaft will keep running even when you push the clutch in and stop foreward movement of the tractor. This means you push the foot clutch half way in, and the tractor will stop, push the clutch the rest of the way in, and the pto will also stop.

"Independent PTO" means the PTO enguagement is seperate from the foot clutch. Usually there's a lever on the tractor to turn the pto on or off, or it's an electric switch that does it.

Advantage of "independent" pto over "live" is, you can turn the pto on or off with out pushing in the foot clutch and stopping the tractor to engage it.

Robert