America's Most Dangerous Job

[hardwood]

My first post, so hi everyone.

In case you didn't already know, it is now confirmed:

--------------------------

Bureau of Labor Statisitcs 2004 data released on Friday. Loggers top the list. Not sure if that includes all tree workers. Perhaps worth some reflection though...

http://money.cnn.com/2005/08/26/pf/jobs_jeopardy/index.htm

Here's some of the text:
Construction workers had 9 percent more fatalities. Of these, roofers recorded 94 deaths, a sharp increase from the 55 they incurred the year before.

The highest rates of fatal injuries -- the most per worker employed -- occurred among loggers, pilots, and fishermen.

Loggers recorded 85 fatalities in 2004, a rate of 92.4 deaths for every 100,000 workers, more than 22 times the rate among all workers. Loggers deal with tremendous weights when they fell trees and it's not always possible to know exactly where a tree will fall or when. Too, they often work on steep hillsides, in poor weather, and in a hurry.

Aircraft pilots matched that death rate of 92.4 and 109 of them died on the job. Many of these were in the general aviation category, small aircraft manned by bush pilots, air-taxi pilots, and crop-dusters. Their equipment can be old and the maintenance less stringent than among the big airlines, adding to the danger.

Rank, Occupation, Death rate/100,000, Total deaths

1, Logging workers, 92.4, 85
2, Aircraft pilots, 92.4, 109
3, Fishing workers, 86.4, 38
4, Steel workers, 7.0, 31
5, Refuse collectors, 43.2, 35
6, Farmers ranchers, 37.5, 307
7, Roofers, 34.9, 94
8, Electrical linemen, 30.0, 36
9, Truck drivers, 27.6, 905
10,Taxi drivers, 24.2, 67

[Buzz-sawyer]

I was suprised to see PILOTS on the list!!
Welcome to the forum ...its fun!

[gary]

welcome to the forum

[Tom]

I would be more concerned about pilots being on the list than loggers being at the top.  Loggers don't carry passengers. :D

[woodbowl]

Hardwood,
    I am suprised to see that loggers have moved to 1st place. 25 years ago I was on a crab boat in the Bering sea off the Aleutian Islands working out of a port called Dutch Harbor. When I got home from my adventures everyone except me seemed to think I had survived the most dangerous job in the word. Later I found out that there had been a special on 20 20 showing footage of boats going under, ice freezing on deck, big swells, man over board and other dangers associated with being a crab fisherman. I was just a nuckle head in his twenties, a long way from hom having the time of his life. I didn't give a second thought that it may be dangerous. It was the most exhausting work I have ever done not even to be compared to working around a sawmill. I see it is #3 on the list now, but here I am messing with #1 again. Logging! I've had Ultralight aircraft for 30 years now. I see that being a pilot is #2. I think I'm in the clear as far as steel workers go (#4), unless being a certified welder qualifies.  I won't have to worry at all about being a garbage collector (#5). I don't even like toten' out the garbage at home. ;D ;D ;D

[Buzz-sawyer]

Yea Woodbowl,"I've had Ultralight aircraft for 30 years now"

I was hoping for some pics and a tutorial on how to get in the air...............

(I wanna be top three too ;))

[Fla._Deadheader]

  Teri says her most dangerous, is, working with me  : : :

[Ron Wenrich]

 wonder what the accident rate is at.  Getting hurt is different than getting killed.  I've been hurt on the job, but it doesn't show up in the statistics.

[woodbowl]

OK Buzz...............  I'm gona' need to dig out some photos. I didn't mean to wait this long.

[Buzz-sawyer]

 ;)

[leweee]

Yah it's a dangerous job....with stats like that it makes insurance unaffordable : But how else would use adrenalin junkys get R fix. Too bad we don't get danger pay.....then we could afford the insurance ;D

[rebocardo]

I wonder how it would stack up if you included injuries that required medical attention or disability.

[Tillaway]

So far over the past year I helped with one packout and drove another guy down to meet his wife so she could drive him to the hospital.

I was walking back back to my truck one day and I saw Wendell, he's 67 years old, standing out in the brush behind his yarder pointing and generally giving directions to the crew.  I walked on up to have a chat and his poor rigging slinger was lying on the ground in a fetal position and in serious pain.  I said " Whats up" and he replied " Rigging slingers back went out and he can't move."

Wendell had the crew cutting a trail out so he could get him on the stokes and down to the crummy.  The stokes was brought up and Wendell, myself, his loader operator, no spring chicken maybe 62 years old, and one of the crew grabbed the stokes and took off.  It was the oldest guys on the hill that packed him out, perhaps a combined 130 years of wood experience.  This did not register for a few days, I found it interesting because most of the crew are in thier 20's.  It just seemed like it was out job I guess.

[Gary_C]

In the chainsaw safety training they say that OSHA has reviewed the accident records for many past years and about 75 per cent of the deaths were due to being hit on the head. That is why they stress hard hats and the first thing to do when cutting a tree is to "LOOK UP." You need to look for any loose parts in the top of that tree.

A hard hat is essential protection but it is not enough to save you from a big limb.

The first day I cut with a feller buncher, in the middle of the morning I grabbed a big Aspen tree and there was a very loud "clunk." When I ventured out of the cab to see what had happened, there was a huge limb still laying on top of the cab.               

I'd like to think that If I was on the ground cutting that tree that I would have seen that limb up in that tree but when your in a hurry with lots of trees to cut, who knows?

[Ron Wenrich]

I know of more guys that got hurt around log trucks than cutting.  I know of 5 guys that got hit by falling logs from trucks during loading or unloading.  2 had permanent limps, 1 died.

We had one logger that, if he had a hanger, he would just go over and cut the tree it was hanging in.  He did it for 20 years, not 21.

[wiam]

I went to the Caledonia County Fair this afternoon.  In a booth by Woodchuck chainsaw artists  one of the guys had chaps on both guys had safety glasses and muffs.  But one had no chaps and both had sneakers.  One stood on a  2 foot 2X8 to cut it.  This was the one with no chaps. 

Will

[mike_van]

Sad to see my profession still in the top 10.  There's a big poster at our training center that reads " There are old lineman - there are careless lineman, but there are no old careless lineman"   You could change the job title to most any field.   For a long time i've been more concerned with being hit by a car than getting burned in the air, re. refuse collectors on the list.  We put out signs & cones till the cows come home, but boy, there are some real loonies on the road - 

[beenthere]

mike_van
I often see a lineman high in the bucket of a boom truck, with nothing but some itty-bitty cones to stop a wayward car. I cringe when I see it, as it seems the guy in the bucket hasn't a snowballs chance if even a slight bump to the boom truck is received. A sacrificial vehicle protecting the truck seems prudent. But that may just be me..... :

[OLD_ JD]

so if ure a full time logger,and bush pilot on ure free time,and fishermen worken on ure logging down time.... better have good insurance :D

[mike_van]

Beenthere - the bean counters would never spring for the extra truck - They hate to pay for a flagger!!  Which by the way we have had dive over the guard rails a few times!  Glad to see the miners no longer on the list, they  were on the top for a long time.  I guess between good saftey, more machines & dwindling numbers of them. 

[woodbowl]

Mike,
    That's a pretty good saying. Never heard that before..................I've always heard : There are a lot of old pilots and there are a lot of bold pilots but there are not a lot of old, bold pilots. ;D

[Buzz-sawyer]

If ya think about it . all these deaths
people ....put together add up to ,"NOT MUCH"......out of 250,000,000

At the turn of the cetury when they built a *DanG or a bridge....not uncommon to lose 13-25 people!!!!!!

[Corley5]

A good friend of mine was grieviously injured in the woods a few days ago.  We don't see much of each other anymore as our lives have taken different paths but we sure had some good times together back in the day ;) ;D  He moved from the landing to the woods as a faller to replace me when I got up one morning and decided I'd had enough working in the woods for someone else.  He's worked in the woods almost exclusively since then and that was 15 years ago.  The last time I saw him was at the store in town and we talked for most of an hour in the parking lot 8).  From what I've heard he was falling timber when something went terribly wrong and he was pinned and crushed.  He suffered severe internal injuries including a broken spine and a severed spinal cord.  He's in the ICU at Munson in Traverse City and if the internal injuries don't get him he won't walk again :( :'(  To top it all off he was just given a clean bill of health after a 2 year long battle with throat cancer (Smoker since he was 13).  The odds were very much against his survival on that one and he pulled through it so hopefully he'll come through this.  Hardhat , chaps etc probably wouldn't have done much good in this case :( but I still were em... well the chainsaw safety helmet anyway ;)

[timberjack240]

wow im 16 and im already workin on the top of the list ... what a way to start out  im not sure if thats good or bad  ???

[Tom]

If you will learn from your elders, remember to think safety first and don't get complacent, then it's good that you are young, have a sharp mind and haven't developed any bad habits yet.

Make sure you stay safe and grow up in one piece.   We'll all be proud of you.

[mike_van]

Buzz-sawyer, they main thing that comes to my mind about the reason for your statistic is trade unions.  You can love 'em or hate 'em, but they are the reason for many safe work practices in a lot of trades.  The union started the apprentice program for lineman a long time ago, more were being killed on the job than were retiring.  It takes 4 years of OJT for a "helper" to become a qualified lineman, but you never read this stuff in the paper. If it's not a "sensational" headline about a strike or corruption it's not there. Nothing is ever said about the thousands of workers that go home safe everyday thanks to union safety rules.  We still lose some, but nothing like "the old days"  I teach new guys today what was taught to me 30+ years ago, it's a never ending circle.

[Woodhog]

Guess this is a case where its not good to be   #1...

[hardwood]

Guess this is a case where its not good to be   #1...

There may be a silver lining in this cloud. Being number one may get more attention focused on improving job safety, building safer equipment, etc. At the same time, it reminds us that we should never get complacent. You only have to let your guard down one time!

[Phorester]

Good point, HARDWOOD.  There's a friend of mine that has worked for a local factory for over 20 years.  Part of his job is to give the safety classes to new employees.  He used to start his talks by holding up both hands with fingers splayed and say, "20 years and I've never let my guard down", meaning he still had all his fingers.   A few years ago he lost a thumb.  Now he starts his safety talks by holding up his hands and saying, "20-(whatever it is at the moment) years and I let my guard down once". 

He's smart enough to realize it was his own fault, and mature enough to use it as a safety lesson.

[Buzz-sawyer]

I dont hate unions....they are like any other burocracy.............
They have done enormous good in this country and many good men laid down thier lives to make life better for us in the here and now................
BUT the corruption and self defeating aspects are also true.........

[hardwood]

mike_van, I agree. While I have never been a union man, there is no denying their impact on workplace safety. And let's not forget OSHA, which love 'em or hate 'em has brought workplace safety to the forefront with mandated safety training and PPE.

Phorester, I can remember a time when safety officers were viewed as necessary evils and safety training was just an excuse for a short nap, but times have changed, and today we take safety a little more seriously. Those of us who were lucky, survived long enough to realize there really is some value in those boring safety meetings.

[timberjack240]

thos safety meetings are a definate plus but they definatley need a way to spice em  up a little  : especailly the SFI classes i hate them things and ive only been to one  ;D but there is a lesson to be learned thats for sure

[Lud]

The irony of Safety is it's tough to make someone be safe.  You expose them to the material. You try to scare them.  What is hard to get across is "they" have to believe "you" REALLY want them to be safe  FIRST- and then be as productive as they can be- and not mix the communication signals up of Safety-Quality-Productivity.

It would be interesting where the original statistics came from.  Strictly Industry?  Or deaths attributed to logging related activities?  Can amatuers be sorted out?  Are the Pros better or worse? Amatuers know less but work slower therefore safer vs. Pros who get pushed more-therefore tired/careless and exposed much more.

G.B. Shaw was quoted as saying "There's lies,  damned lies,  and statistics."

[rebocardo]

> G.B. Shaw was quoted as saying "There's lies,  damned lies,  and statistics."

I thought it was Mark Twain and he said "There are liars, *DanG liars, and then there's statisticians."

or something to that effect.

[Buzz-sawyer]

Actually it was Robert E Lee...and he said" "There are Yankees, *DanG Yankess, and then there's statisticians." ;D

[OneWithWood]

or was it Joe American who said " There is politicians, more politicians, and then there is politicians with statistics."

[Murf]

I suspect the reason pilots are in the list is that they include all pilots ........

In the first ten minutes of flight on your very first flight, you are a pilot.......

However, the learning curve is rather steep sometimes in this line of work.  ;)

As my grandfather taught me when I was first learning to fly "most aircraft accidents are caused by a loose nut behind the stick.".

He was very right.  ;D

[Tom]

Actually, Flying is pretty safe.   It's landing that causes the most problems.  ;)

My good friend, Harry, lost his life when his plane nosed over, crashed and burned at the end of an orange grove.  He was a crop duster.  Statistics probably lump his accident in with ultra-light aircraft, soarer's and The Blue Angels.

[Deadwood]

I was really surprised to see that Fisherman were down to third. I guess that makes sense with the lack of fishing they do these days. Still I lost 4 friends last year to a fishing vessel lost at sea, and know of two more people that died this year. In total, since 1992 when I graduated, ten of my classmates have perished to the sea.

I have heard of a few loggers as well, but none in my area in the last few years anyway.

In any case, now you will see why I Lobster part-time, log part-time and Railroad full-time!