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bugs (sawyer beetle larvae)

Started by Dan_Shade, August 06, 2005, 07:26:09 PM

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Dan_Shade

I'm pretty sure this is what i've got, white grub looking things with two black "teeth", didn't have my camera available or think to take a picture at that stage...  I finally got around to a few pine logs I had around, and they were going at them pretty good, you could hear them chewing while standing there.

I saw another post on the board which said to wrap it in black plastic, seal it, and set it in the sun.  should I let the wood dry before this?  those things are pretty efficient little buggers!  I'd rather kill them before they do any more damage.

suggestions, comments (I was trying to keep some info all in the same thread:  https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=11382 ) but this probably is a better place for it.
Woodmizer LT40HDG25 / Stihl 066 alaskan
lots of dull bands and chains

There's a fine line between turning firewood into beautiful things and beautiful things into firewood.

Minnesota_boy

Mill those logs into lumber and let it air dry for a month.  Then go listen for the sound of the grubs.  I'll bet they are gone!  They can't live in wood that is dry.
I eat a high-fiber diet.  Lots of sawdust!

Dan_Shade

it's all sawn into 2x4's right now, stacked up to air dry. 
Woodmizer LT40HDG25 / Stihl 066 alaskan
lots of dull bands and chains

There's a fine line between turning firewood into beautiful things and beautiful things into firewood.

Tom

Our Southern Sawyer, and I sumise the rest as well, bore a hole into the log, after growing up some by feeding on cambium, and go toward the pith about 3 to 6 inches then turn the tunnel up to form a "J".   That's where they become adults.  We call the larvae, flatheads.  Some folks like them for fish bait but I never had good luck with them. :)

If the hole is round and full of "frass" (looks like a bunch of toothpicks blocking it), the rascal is still in the log.  If the hole is oval and clear, the beetle has left.

They can't live in a dried piece of wood, so, drying is the way to get rid of them.  Sawing, you will kill a lot of them because they get in front of the blade.  :D  They still can be missed though and their chamber totally enclosed inside of a 2x4.   They aren't eating the wood for food though and most of the damage is already done.  So, drying is the best cure.   

Wood Peckers will find find them and do more damage as they hammer away at the log or board to get to the larvae.

Our rural folks build with Southern sawyer beetle damaged wood al of the time.  It can still make good sheeting for a barn.  If you use it for 2x4's, you might find some that have been weakened.  Large planks that have minimal damage are seldom weakened enough to worry about.

Those little bark beetles are a different story.  They can riddle a piece of wood inside as they chew away creating egg galleries.

Dan_Shade

thanks guys, all sort of what I figured.  the wall they're heading for is not load bearing so it should be fine.  I sure did saw plenty in half with these logs, dug a bunch others out with my pocket knife.

maybe I should get a fishhook, straighten it out, and pull them back out of their holes ;D

Woodmizer LT40HDG25 / Stihl 066 alaskan
lots of dull bands and chains

There's a fine line between turning firewood into beautiful things and beautiful things into firewood.

Bruce McCowan

Regarding the white grubs tunnelling into white pine logs.... got a few questions...
-After the tree is cut down (or falls), does it help to immediately remove all of the bark?
-Should any particular pesticide or other treatment be applied to the log?
-Should the logs be milled within, say two months?
-Or should the logs be milled before July, when the grubs seem to start their tunelling?
-Is there any treatment that should be applied to the boards after milling -- or is drying for a month sufficient to kill them?
Many thanks for your help.

Tom

Welcome to the Forestry Forum, Bruce.

My experience with flat-head borers is in the "southeast" with Southern Yellow Pine.

The borers are attracted to the cambium layer, just beneath the bark, as it is full of sugars.  Debarking logs minimizes the attraction insects have for laying their eggs there.  Usually Flat-head and Round-head borer adults deposit their eggs in a small divot in the outside bark of a felled or standing dead tree.  The eggs hatch and the larvae go through several maturing stages as they tunnel through the cambium, eating.   They then turn toward the wood and bore a hole toward the center of the tree.  It is usually about 3 to 6 inches deep and turns in a "J".   The larvae turns into an adult borer beetle while resting in the bottom of this hole.

With flat-heads, the hole's opening is round and filled with frass.  When you find the hole has no frass and is oval, the beetle has left.

To minimize attack, logs are debarked, sprinkled, submerged or sawed immediately.
Insecticides may help to kill adults and keep them from laying eggs, but do little for the tunneling larvae.

Logs should always be milled as soon as possible after removal from the stump.  This has to do with ease of milling, softness of wood, minimizing drying defects (end splits) as well as minimizing insect attack.  Insect attack needn't take long.  Submerging or sprinkling is one way that mills inhibit it. 

Blue Stain is also a defect that results from insect attack.  It is a fungus carried by the small bark beetles who inoculate the logs. Once this inoculation occurs, the stain can progress to the heart in a matter of hours.

I've never heard of July as being a defining time for milling.  You should try to mill within hours or days of felling.  Freezing temperatures are the only preventive elemental occurrences that inhibit insect attack, to my knowledge, other than submergence.

Boards created from milling are still liable to be attacked by Powder Post Beetles, but the large borers are no longer interested.  Most beetles require an intact bark to house feeding larvae.

Temperatures of 130 degrees or greater will kill most insect eggs.  That is not ambient temperature, but rather the interior of the wood must be held at 130 degrees for a length of time to kill the eggs and larvae.  Most "experts" I am familiar with favor temperatures in the range of 160 degrees for this.

Texas Ranger

Quote from: Tom on August 08, 2005, 09:54:09 AM
Those little bark beetles are a different story.  They can riddle a piece of wood inside as they chew away creating egg galleries.

Um, not bark beetles, which live in the cambium for their life cycle, but, yes, there are other wood eating insects that go after the wood after the bark beetles have done their job.
The Ranger, home of Texas Forestry

SwampDonkey

Ditto to what Tom says. I think he should bookmark the thread so he can post the link in every upcoming thread that he's going to be writing about the little rascals. He's getting pretty good at typing it out though. ;D

It's interesting about them Dang sawyer beetles. I was talking to a logger, standing in his wood yard of spruce and fir logs and as we were talking I could see the adults homing in on the log pile scouting already. Some of those logs were only cut for 24 hours.  ::)
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Left Coast Chris

I just had a major infestation of flathead borers in some large white oak logs.  The logs sat for four to six weeks then I began to check for borers.  There were hundreds or thousands between the botom of the bark layer and top of the cambium layer. :o  Most were juviniles, some were adults (or full size in appearance).   There was no appearent entry hole on the outside of the bark.  They were tunneling like crazy but no holes went into the tree they traveled only parallel to the bottom of the bark.   They died quickly upon removal of the bark and then we sawed.  I treat with Timbor prior to stacking for drying so I do not get a powder post bettle attack while and after drying.  It has worked well.   I have never had a flat head borer attack a dried board.  Only powder post beatles.
Home built cantilever head, 24 HP honda mill, Case 580D, MF 135 and one Squirel Dog Jack Russel Mix -- Crickett

SwampDonkey

Quote from: farmer77 on August 19, 2006, 09:02:50 PM
I have never had a flat head borer attack a dried board.  Only powder post beatles.

I had them in green lumber. But, it was only in fresh cut wood and they were making their exit.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

limbrat

 Are the adults a brownish beatle with little spots and big antena? There better than a inch long.
ben

SwampDonkey

Flat headed borers are generally buprestidae, such as the golden buprestid. Some are even metalic green. I'm sure there are other colors. I see mostly green or gold ones, especially around hardwood, even the firewood pile.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

limbrat

Neat bug, we called them popping bugs when i was growing up because of the way they would right themselves after some kid flip them over.
ben

slowzuki

Sawed up lots of those suckers while we worked on our 1.5 year old pile of logs.  Some seem to sit in there dormant but as the roof has been going up on the building they are crawling out as the wood dries more.  When milling my buddy helping offbear hated seeing them, and worse, hated me smacking them flat with a stick as the guts would spew out at high velocity out the head end. ;D

Minnesota_boy

Quote from: Tom on August 19, 2006, 03:50:40 PM
I've never heard of July as being a defining time for milling.  You should try to mill within hours or days of felling.  Freezing temperatures are the only preventive elemental occurrences that inhibit insect attack, to my knowledge, other than submergence.

I think the reference to milling before July is for my area, where July is the only month that is near certain to not freeze.  A frost can occur any other month and does so often.
I eat a high-fiber diet.  Lots of sawdust!

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