Getting started

[ex-Engineer Wannabe]

Hi, to all the members and guests!

As I'm still in the research stages of milling, finding this forum was just what the doctor ordered, so I'm very glad to be here.

To begin with, I grew up on a small farm where most folks were pretty self-sufficient.  And although that runs contrary to today's trends, I still have the desire to do the things we all did when I was younger -- specifically -- I want to build my own home with my own hands!  In fact, that's been my idea of the American dream for as long as I can remember.

Along those lines, I also want to employ the resources --  namely timber -- from my own land to accomplish this.  In short, I want to give milling my own lumber a try to begin with, and then see where that takes me afterword.

As I'm still not positive about which method I'll employ -- log construction or timber framing -- I'm in a bit of a quandry when it comes to mills.  I'm sure it's an old story, and an old question, but here goes:

Which type of portable mill would you START OUT WITH?   That is, if you wanted to start out by milling either timbers or logs, as well as dimensional framing lumber, from trees that don't exceed say 30" OD, which would you choose?  (max crew = two men)

I realize there's a myriad of factors that could enter into this, but I'd really enjoy reading the general thoughts of some folks who've probably said, "If I had to start over, I'd..." 

Regardless, any thoughts or recommendations are most appreciated

B in NOLA

[AtLast]

Welcome to the Forum!!!!
Your right on track as far as realizing the myrid of factors....you have an idea for your pursuit and follow that..in my opinion...as long as you know what YOU want to mill and what for at this point is all good....like most in here...once folks find out you have a mill you will find that you will become a popular " friend"....none the less...as far as your own applications go..in my opinion...you have the right idea...to use your resources...for a particular reason.......my only warning is...once you start milling...you'll be hooked....and by applying the material you produce...well shoot.....ALL the better...

[Ernie]

First WELCOME to the forum B in Nola.

You will get all kinds of opinions, all well considered and all with distinct merits.

I started with an Alaskan mill using a double ended bar and two chainsaw powerheads.
Reason, it was cheap.  Way too hard to use for an old man like me.

I now run a twin saw. ie circle saw with a vertical blade and a horizontal blade.  I can quartersaw the whole log if I want, the wood comes off finished, accurate and square, it's easy to use and can be a single man operation.  The logs are left on the ground and only need to be rolled into the mill, there is minimum waste.  I can get a slabbing attachment if I want to.  Mill cost in US $ about 13000. here in New Zealand.  Maximum cut 6" by 12" by 17 feet.

The maximum log diameter is just over 6 feet.  When milling smaller diameter logs I lay multiple logs under the mill and cut them all at once up to a total width of 6 feet.

I can tow the rig around behind my four wheel motorbike and set it up anywhere but prefferably on a level patch of ground.

There are many options  this is just one.

Good luck.

BEWARE  Making sawdust is addictive, the Surgeon General should put a warning on each mill.

[AtLast]

BEWARE  Making sawdust is addictive, the Surgeon General should put a warning on each mill

         AMEN TO THAT ERNIE.....you hit that nail on the head.....OPPS...I shouldnt use that term in here... :D

[ex-Engineer Wannabe]

Thanks for the welcome, AtLast. ;D

I'm glad to read that we're kindred when it comes to my ideas about my own resources.  I also like what I read about getting "hooked."  Considering the mess many people have to deal with, that's an addiction I could live with :D  

In fact, as I go through my research, I find myself being pulled slowly away from desk and out to my 4x4.  Hmmm...must be those old memories of the farm beckoning.  Anyway, leaving the race to the rats doesn't sound bad at all.

Thank you,
B
PS - Really like the "treecycle" moniker.

[DanG]

Welcome, B.  Where is NOLA?  You talkin' bout N'awlins? ???

Hey brdmkr!  You ain't tha new guy anymore! 8) 8) :D :D :D

I'm with Ernie on the favorite mill type, for my own purposes, at least.  I think the learning curve is a bit easier to negotiate, and the mills are less labor-intensive for a sawyer working alone.  One of our sponsors make's a really good one in several sizes and models.  That would be D&L Doublecut, seen on the left of your screen.  Used mills from various manufacturers are readily available, too.

I like the swing-blade type, too.  I didn't go that route for several reasons. 1. I'm too old to be pushing anything.  2.  I found a used Mobile Dimension on the cheap.  3.  I prefer to work alone, and don't find them practical for that, especially considering reason # 1.

I'm not a huge fan of bandmills, but lots of folks are, and are successful with them.  Not knocking them, (that would be foolish) they're just not my cup o' tea.

[ex-Engineer Wannabe]

Well thanks to you as well, Ernie and DanG  ;D

Right on the money...NOLA = New Orleans, LA.  However, I actually live across the river in a town called Gretna.  Don't you have one of those nearby, DanG?

Yes, I've seen some video of the D&L double-cut saw and it's one of those on my list for further research.  In fact, I need to call those guys up there and ask if anyone owns one near me.  Ernie, is that the type of saw you're using over in NZ?

DanG, I'm assuming you're a native Floridian?  We may be some of the last of those in existence :D

As I wrote earlier, a sawdust addiction is one a man could actually live with.

B in NOLA

[Ernie]

https://forestryforum.com/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=176

In my gallery, there are pics of my mill, this is the link

https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=10731.0

https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=12749.0

A couple of links to threads about the mill.

[DanG]

Not native, I'm afraid, but I live about 4 miles from Gretna.  Was born in Thomasville, Ga, about 20 miles north of Fla.  Moved to Tallahassee when I was 16.

I think the next good chance to see a whole bunch of mills in action would be the Sunbelt Ag Expo in Moultrie, Ga in mid-October.  It's a huge 3-day show, and well worth the trip if you can swing it.

[ex-Engineer Wannabe]

Thanks again, Ernie and DanG.

Ernie, those pictures of your mill -- especially the one with the scrag redwood log :D -- made me very envious.  I wonder if Rimu has a distributor in the US?  Hmmm...

DanG, thanks for the tip on the Moultrie show.  It would be a pretty good ride from here, but it may well be worth it.  Do a lot of the mill manufacturers give demonstrations at the show?

B in NOLA 

[Ernie]

Here is their website but as they aren't FF sponsors it is probably better to deal with someone who is.

http://www.rimuengineering.co.nz/main.html


The one I've got is the contractor deluxe 12 X 6

IMHO, the others aren't worth it, too ackward  to use for the smaller ones or the addon's are too expensive for the bigger ones.

[ex-Engineer Wannabe]

Great link again, Ernie.

Hey, there was one photo on there that looked pretty familiar!   Which model do you own?  And, by the way, the sponsor's products always get a good look first  ;D

B in NOLA 

[ex-Engineer Wannabe]

Sorry, Ernie.  The flipping back and forth from the links to the forum got me crossed up.  Thanks for providing your model information (already).

B in NOLA

[customsawyer]

First of all welcome to the forum. It's getting pretty deep in here with all the "DanG" talk about circle mills. :D As you will learn there are all diferent types of mills for all different types of folks just keep your eyes and ears open in her and you will figure out what will work best for you.
I run a WoodMizer, wait let me think about that it runs me, anyway I love to make the sawdust and the lumber. My mill has served me very well and has done all that I have asked of it sometimes more. Wish I could say that about all things in my life  but at least I can say it about my mill.

[ex-Engineer Wannabe]

Thanks for the welcome, customsawyer.

Just so you know, the only mill I've ever actually seen [portable anyway] was a Wood-Mizer LT 40 Hydrualic -- and I thought it was terrific!  Nevertheless, I'm one of the most conservative folks you'll ever want to meet and, consequently, I do loads of research before I buy anything of value (you should ask my wife about the diamond I bought for her wedding ring sometime) :D

So...for me, it's all a matter of looking, listening and a lot of reading.  Therefore, I'm sure I'll be seeing as many of the mills on "my list" as possible before I buy anything.

Thanks for your thoughts,
B

[J_T]

DanG look out we got compotishon on being tight thought we had the market cornered :D :D Welcome  B

[DanG]

Compotishon?  HA!  Ya mean that lil' ol' Customsawyer fella?  Is that the best  the bandmill guys can come up with?  Pshaww!  He ain't no more than about 6'3, and a little ol skinny thing, sorta like that guy that used ta be in th' movies.  What was his name? Oh yeah, Tarzan, that was him.  Shucks, I can take 10 like him before breakfast. ;D

[Ianab]

Hi there B and welcome to the forum

I run an old Peterson swingblade and I recomend you have a look at them... Also the Lucas and D&L's model as well.

Reasoning here is that you get a very capable mill for a good price. If you are cutting beams and construction lumber then the kerf saving of a bandmill becomes less important.

If you are cutting 30" logs a small manual bandmill isn't going to be much fun, a LT40 with hydralics would handle them fine, but thats going to set you back a lot more than a swingblade.

Big plus with the swingblade is not having to move the log when sawing, it just sits on the ground if it's a big log, or some basic wooden bunks if it's a little 30"er. This saves a huge amount of weight and cost, the mill rails only support the sawhead.

You didn't mention what support equipment you have and if you need to be portable or not. If you have a loader or decent tractor it makes any mill more efficient, but with a swinger you can at least haul the mill out to where the log is and saw it up where it lays.

Ernies twinsaw has all the advantages of a swingblade as well, just dont know where you will get one in the US  ;)

Cheers

Ian

[ex-Engineer Wannabe]

G'day, Ian...and Cheers right back at ya!

Yes, the swingers and the double cuts are moving up my list quickly.  They seem to be highly flexible -- especially for someone who DOESN"T currently own any log handling equipment of any kind...although I suppose I could make some ruts with my 4x4 if I had to :D

Seriously, though, the swingers do seem like a good starting point for someone with land that wants to utilize his timber resources.  The thing is...I'm also looking to slow my life down a bit, so I'm playing with the idea of starting a small scale business of some sort down the road. 

As I grew up on small farm -- in an area where everyone pitched in to build things -- I've had saw dust in my veins since childhood.  In short, I want to leave the rat race to the rats and get back to my roots.  Having said all that, I learned enough from the corporate world to be very cautious with business investments (even if they're presently potential investments). 

Anyway, the investment factor leaves a few GENERAL questions about ANY of the mills, not just the Peterson.  For example, does the finished product necessitate the purchase of additional equipment -- planers, edgers, expensive setters/sharpeners and the like.  The Wood-Mizer LT40 Hydraulic I saw rendered a product that was pretty close to finished.  The lumber I saw cut (Cypress 1x4s) was consistent in both finish and dimension.  Heck, the guy even ran a lumber gauge down the length of the boards to show me how "tight" they were, and he was right -- hard to argue with that.

However, it's also quite clear that there are downsides to the "big" mills.  The time and capital you must invest in blades, for instance, makes a huge investment even larger (on a daily basis).  It also occurred to me that there's another problem inherent to the bandies -- portability.  Yes, you can pull them to a tract of land anywhere, BUT can you always count on the serene pastures you see depicted in the demonstration videos.  No...I've got enough grey matter left to know that the grade of the site and the available space are serious considerations.  In short, some of the monsters I've seen in the videos would make dynamite small-scale stationary mills, but truly "portable"...I'm not convinced yet.

So those are my thoughts transferred to the keyboard.  There's nothing personal at all to any of my nonsense; I'm just trying my best to make a sound investment,  By the way, Ian, what is the finished quality of the dimensional lumber you've cut with your Petie?  Are the dimensions fairly consistent on your boards?  What do you do with the slab you end up with at the bottom of your logs?  Some of the video I've watched seems to end just before that part...and some of those things definitely look like they've still got lumber locked in there? 

Thanks very much for your post...and any thoughts or comments are much appreciated.

Bill in NOLA
       

[Haytrader]

One of our members (Duke ) has a D&L he wants to sell.
He sawed a bunch of walnut on his farm and doesn't need it anymore.
If you want his # I have it.

[DanG]

Bill, you can recover that last board in the bottom slab.  Sometimes it is worth the effort, sometimes not.  It just depends on how much effort you're willing to put into that one board.  The easiest and best way is to set it aside and start on the next log.  At some time during the processing of that one, leave a small "standing slab" on it to help hold your stock in place.  Put your left-over slab on, face down, and skim the round part off of it.  You will still need to edge the recovered board, too.

Think real seriously about coming over for the Moultrie show, and allow time to be there for at least 2 days. You will get to see a LOT of sawing on all different types of portable mills.  You get to meet and talk with the owners of many of the companies, too.  Ask them ANYTHING, and you'll get a straight, knowlegable answer.  Last year, I provided the logs for the Peterson crew, and came away with over 2,000 bf of lumber.  All the others were generating similar stacks, so it is a very active time.  Don't miss it if you're serious about making an informed decision. ;)

[ex-Engineer Wannabe]

Thanks, Haytrader in Kansas.

Yes, I would like to get Duke's number.  The D&L product is definitely one of the mills I'm considering.

B in NOLA

[ex-Engineer Wannabe]

Very good thoughts, as always, DanG ;D

As it sounds like a pretty big shindig, the Moultrie show is very attractive.  By the way, how do you like the service you've received from Peterson?  As they're out of NZ, that is naturally a big concern.

Bill in NOLA

[DanG]

Couldn't really address that, since I don't have a Peterson mill. :'(  I have an old clunker of a Mobile Dimension Saw, that is still pumping out pretty boards after 20 years.  The last 3 years of that was under my inexperienced hand.

In spite of what I said earlier, ya really oughta check out that D&L that Duke has.  IF it is the size you want, and the money is right, you could hardly go wrong.  The D&L is a fine machine, and would be my choice if I were buying a new one.

[Haytrader]

Duke Marrs  XXXXXXXX

Fowler, Kansas.

Not sure of the exact saw he has.
It has a 25 HP and he made it mobile after he got it. \



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