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woodlot managment question

Started by Thehardway, July 20, 2005, 03:20:13 PM

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Thehardway

My father owns a 25ac. woodlot that has been enrolled an the "clean and green" program in NW PA.  It is composed mostly of maple trees.  There are a fair number that are approaching the 10" -12" dia. and many saplings in the 2-3" dia. range.  There are a few large tulip poplars that would make saw logs that need to be taken out and a couple cherry.

Here are my questions:  Should the small 2-3" maples that are crooked or have crotches be taken out at this point and the straight ones left?
What is best size to havest the larger maples?
Could we seed the floor with pine seeds in hopes of harvesting pines at a later time or what trees would be good to plant after thinning the maples and taking out the poplars/cherry?
Is there a market for maple as chips or pulpwood?
Norwood LM2000 24HP w/28' bed, Hudson Oscar 18" 32' bed, Woodmaster 718 planer,  Kubota L185D, Stihl 029, Husqvarna 550XP

Ron Wenrich

Boy, you pack a lot of questions into a small space.   :D

10-12" trees are barely sawtimber size.  For the most part, they're still not done growing.  As for those 2-3" saplings, they're probably about the same age as the larger trees.  It makes little sense to try a release these trees at this time.  What you should be trying to do is maximize the growth on your small sawtimber trees.  Regeneration probably won't be playing much of a part of the management until you are ready to liquidate the stand.

You should be maintaining a fully stocked stand.  When you get to the overstocked stand, growth on the trees will diminish.  Trees increase in diameter through crown expansion.  So, you are trying to maintain areas for the crowns to expand.  You keep your better trees and remove marginal ones due to species, form or defect.  Never kill your best milkers.

A fully stocked stand will have about 70-100 sq ft of basal area per acre.  You can get this data either by point sampling or by taking an inventory.  You can also get an angle guage that will measure the approximate basal area at any point.  They're great for making decisions in the woods, as well as taking inventory. 

How big for maple?  The bigger the better.  A lot of guys are cutting trees at smaller diameters then in years gone by.  That is very short sighted management.  In the long term, you'll make more money by letting them grow to 24-26" than you will by cutting them when they hit sawtimber size.  Veneer doesn't kick in until about 16" dbh, so anything smaller than that is sold as sawtimber.

Pulpwood is considered at 4" and larger.  Those small saplings will not make pulpwood and the bark content would be too high for chips.

As for spreading pine seeds, that would be OK, but why would you want to go back to a pine forest?  Cherry is very high quality in your area.  It also fetches about 10-15 times the price as pine.  It doesn't grow as fast, but the money sure does. 

The pine could be spread out, and you might get some regeneration.  An acceptable method of pine regeneration in hardwoods is to allow the pine seedling to establish themselves in 10-20 years, then clearcut the overstory.  The logging does get to be a little hard on the understory.
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

OLD_ JD

growing pine ::)...ummm...pine need acid sol,but not maple :o
over here we try to take ALL the evergreen out of maple stand,and u whante to input some ::)..boy o boy...  :o
canadien forest ranger

Sawyerfortyish

Hardway forget the pine. Pine is .06 to .10 afoot standing. You have one of the best money crops growing right now. Just sit back and let it happen or as Ron says maybe cull out some of the not so good trees. But in doing this be carful not to mess up the good trees left. Sometimes you can do more harm than good. In your area Cherry is the #1 cash crop and maple is #2. Right now you have a tossup between small saw logs or firewood size trees give em time to grow some.

Thehardway

Thanks for the info guys!  I guess I'll scrap the pine idea.   We will probably cut the poplar and cherry and replant the openings in cherry or black walnut and wait for the rest to mature.
Norwood LM2000 24HP w/28' bed, Hudson Oscar 18" 32' bed, Woodmaster 718 planer,  Kubota L185D, Stihl 029, Husqvarna 550XP

SwampDonkey

Yeah, I wouldn't consider pine. They are not very shade tolerant, compared to your maples. White pine are intermediate tolerant to shade, but timing has to be just right to release them. I've seen old fields grow back with mixed species including white pine, and the pine are mostly dead or dying after 60 years. The aspen and birch over topped them and the more shade tolerant fir out competed them. Not a straight, single stemed white pine in the bunch.  ::) Your maples are more valueable, as everyone has stated. Try promoting some cherry with 1 acre patch cuts in close proximity to a cherry seed source. Maybe you can transplant seedlings in the spring time in open areas. I'm not sure what you get for invasive weeds, but maybe a squirt of roundop (as site prep) will do wonders on your planting plots. In my area it's raspberry, pin cherry, elder, white birch and aspen that quickly invade freshly cut hardwood stands.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

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