charging for fence boards

Don R · July 19, 2005, 04:34:47 PM

I know this has been asked and answered so many times, I hate to bring it in again, but, I have a guy who has about a dozen 16 1/2 foot red oak logs. He wants to bring them to me, and have me cut them into 1x6x16 fence boards. He will take them off the mill, and load them onto his truck, and haul them away. I've just been tinkering with the mill, cut up a few cedars, and a cherry for myself but have never cut for someone else. How should I charge this guy so everyone is happy. Thanks for all the help. Don

thedeeredude · July 19, 2005, 04:57:00 PM

The guy I buy lumber from sells fence boards for $.45 a board foot, but thats with his logs, so I would think maybe $.30 a board foot would be a good deal since he's loading and offbearing himself. We'll see what other people think though.

Dan_Shade · July 19, 2005, 04:59:25 PM

charge him by the hour, get a "reasonable" hourly rate for your area, around here, it would probably be $20-$25 / hour. I'm not sure what I'd do if a "deal" like that walked into my lap, my saw cuts so slow!

how many HP does your mill's engine have?

Tom · July 19, 2005, 05:04:54 PM

I would recommend charging him by the board foot. Will he be taking his slabs with him? If he doesn't, do you have a use for them?

Charging by the Board Foot is fair to the customer because he only pays for what he gets. It doesn't take into consideration your expertise or size of saw and production capabilities.

You still must have some idea of what you can produce to make it fair for you. Can you cut 1000 board feet of 1x6's a day? If so, fifteen cents a board foot will gross $150. Regardless of your geographic area, I don't think I would go lower than that.

Some have charged as much as fifty cents a board foot and I think that is usually too much.

You will probably find that somewhere between 20 cents and thirty-five cents is appropriate.

Be sure you have an understanding with him about blade damage from foreign objects in the logs.
Make sure you are compensated for the trash that is left. If it is not trash to you, then you are doing him a favor by keeping it.

Fla._Deadheader · July 19, 2005, 05:26:09 PM

Them 16'ers will be heavy, no matter how ya work 'em. Can you load and turn them easily ??

Don R · July 19, 2005, 05:52:11 PM

I have an lt15. and hopefully my kubota loader is enough to lift them onto the mill.
Tom, thanks for such a comprehensive answer. I can cut up the slabs for firewood to sell at my campground, so It's fine if he leaves them. I guess if I charge him $.20 a BF no one will get hurt. and if he's happy, maybe he's got a friend. Thanks again and any further advice from anyone is certainly welcome.

submarinesailor · July 19, 2005, 06:05:13 PM

Be real careful as you set those big logs on the mill. We also turned our LT15 over when one got away from us.

I hope your Kobota will handle them 16 footers. We got a bigger tractor to handle ours – JD 4520. I think the loader handles about 2250 lbs and that is just enough sometimes.

Bruce/subsailor

Tom · July 19, 2005, 06:16:20 PM

I have never been in favor of using a tractor to place a log on a mill. The chances of dropping it are too great and hydraulics have a way of jerking around sometimes. I prefer to place a ramp (couple of 4x4's or logs that are just a little taller than than the rails) beside the mill and place the log on them. The log could be placed close. Then fill the gap with some blocking when I get ready to roll the log onto the mill. Cant hooks will allow you to have more control over the shock that the mill may receive.

woodmills1 · July 19, 2005, 07:50:24 PM

isnt the LT 15 close to the ground? I roll rather large 16 foot stuff with a peavy all the time so I woulkd go with a couple of bunks and put the logs on the bunks with the tractor. Not to break the mold here but I get $1.25 per bd ft for red oak fence boards, my logs, though I am in a somewhat urban market. My last 2 cuts for customers with mostly 12 and 16 foot logs in pine came out to 32 and 26 cents per bd ft at my charge of $50 per hour, and they bought lunch :D :D :D

twoodward15 · July 19, 2005, 08:02:27 PM

20 cents is way too cheap. Don't tell fstedy, but you should be getting at least 30 cents a bdft now! The guy I usually buy lumber from gets 40 cents a bdft now, and I have to help, and as we all know it aint easy work either.

lamar · July 19, 2005, 11:54:41 PM

seeing I have no hydraulics I use a log bunk and rolled some biguns on it.If i get a log almost to heavy for the tractor,for safety I use chains rather than forks because the weight center is farther back (log is closer to tractor)so I can move around better with a bigger log.The other advantage is you have more control of log when setting on mill with chains.set it where you want it and drop the chains.If the guy is willing to help .20 to .30 is where Id go and if these boards are 1 1/2" you will get more ft. per cut.I have a hard time with pine under 1 1/2

Gary_C · July 20, 2005, 01:22:03 AM

Some things to consider.

If those 16 1/2 ft Red Oak logs are straight and without any large knots, they are too valuable to use for fence boards. If they have large knots, you will get quite a few boards less than full 16 ft long.

Either way, to get the best yield, you will need to turn those logs frequently and once you make flat sides on them, even 8 foot red oak logs or cants can be a real bear to turn, especially on a manual mill. You will need a heavy duty loader and you may spend as much or more time turning than you do sawing. Plus it can be hard on the mill no matter how you turn them.

Make sure you don't agree to something that just will not work both financially and to satisfy your customer. Cutting those 16 foot red oaks may be more than that mill can survive.

rbjones03 · July 20, 2005, 09:18:19 AM

Careful about your charge, It's hard to explain how you charge one person $.20/ bd ft and his friend $.30 /bd ft. Be fair to yourself and fair to the customer. Remember if you are doing this for fun then it doesn't matter but if you hope to make a little $$$ consistency is the key.

mike_van · July 20, 2005, 08:19:38 PM

My 2 cents - I used green red oak boards for a fence once- 10' ones - out in the sun, at least 1/4 of them warped so bad you could have made skis out of them. 16 footers could be a canoe - something to pass on to your client. On the rate, I know costs vary around the country, but $20 - $25 hr is dirt cheap. Try to hire a backhoe, take your car to a repair shop, or buy parts for your mill or tractor. You have a good investment there, milling is hard work, we all know that, i've got 2 big back sugery scars to prove it - In the end, the price is up to you, but seeing as you asked, I just wanted to say don't sell your equipment & labor short, if you wreck something, all the customer is going to care about is you didn't finish his lumber, not what it costs you to get up & running again. Let us know , if you would what you worked out - inquiring minds at work, you know - :-\

Don R · July 20, 2005, 08:32:16 PM

Mike, thanks for your 2 cents, and everyone elses. It really is a great help. Re: the oak boards for fencing, Down here in s. west Virginia (feeder cattle & horse country) Oak is so abundant, that"s all the farmers use for fencing. 8 feet between posts 3 or four boards, coat them with creosote or motor oil. the real fancy ones use white paint and they seem to hold up. Who the heck am I to argue with them. The bigger mills in this area don't cut anything but Red oak and poplar. Thanks again Don

Cedarman · July 21, 2005, 08:20:33 AM

I look at what you are doing as research and development. You are doing research here on the forum and you are going to take what you find to the mill. It is not real critical at this stage to get the perfect price as you have yet to see how long and hard it will be to get the sawing done. Whatever price you agree on is going to be ok because you are looking for experience.

When you do this job, keep close track of the time it takes to do it. Time starts from the time you stop doing other work and begin the fence project, to the time you change to the next project.

Keep good track of the footage you saw and the footage you get paid for. They may be different if you throw in some freebies.

Keep track of blades used. Keep track of time actual sawing if possible. This way you can compare time on the mill with time getting ready to saw.

Once you have these figures, then you will know how much you are making per hour of work. You will know what to charge per hour or what to charge per board foot to get the money you feel you deserve. Only you can decide how much per hour your time is worth, but I personally recommend that you don't work cheap. You will not feel good and it will not increase business enough to compensate.

This is the general philosophy that I use when starting a new venture.

Fla._Deadheader · July 21, 2005, 09:04:36 AM

I woodn't think that at 25 cents bd/ft, you wood be hurt. If you can do 500 ft in a day, that's $125.00, Before expences. That's where I wood start out.

Follow Cedarmans advice as far as sperense. All the info given is good. Just gotta start somewhere. ;D ;D

rebocardo · July 21, 2005, 11:03:24 AM

I would charge by the hour (whatever you decide) and after nuking a chain again (hit six 16D nails in one foot of cutting) cutting urban wood I would add in a chain/band charge for anything you hit. You should average at least $35-$50 per hour. imo.

AtLast · July 23, 2005, 03:59:14 PM

Im sure Im gunna regret this BUT....in my opinion....you need to base your price on your productivity.....at the hourly rate I charge and the production I do I have...to date...not surpassed $0.45 a b/f....NOW....I can say that I know of no Home Depot or Lowes...or MOST lumber yards that will sell the type of material you are talking about for anything close to what YOU can produce it for....your saving garce is that you can give them the product they desire for MUCH less than what it would cost them to go out and buy it for...

smwwoody · July 24, 2005, 08:55:36 AM

Hi Don

Just so you know what the market is in the area. We are not too far from you in Buckingham County and we sell 16' white oak fence boards for $6.00 each.

Woody

Rod · July 24, 2005, 09:04:20 AM

The big mill down the road sales 1''x6''x16 mix oak for $200 and M.So it's kind of hard to tell someone you will cut up there oak for $200 a M

Fla._Deadheader · July 24, 2005, 09:53:05 AM

Still believe that, with Don R's own words, he has been "Tinkering around" with his mill. I surely would not get greedy the first job I get.

If the big mill gets .20 cents, your price of .25 is very realistic. Figure what the guy would have in hauling both ways, to pay for taking them to "the big mill", who may not even saw them. :

We get .35 cents and do a pretty good job, not as fast as some of these guys, but, we do OK.

Your area and mileage MAY vary. ;) ;D :D

Mike_Barcaskey · July 24, 2005, 01:04:08 PM

If I'm not making $300.00 a day, I'm falling behind.
The minute you start charging, you're in business and not doing it for fun and you need to charge appropiately. What if the log owner gets hurt helping you. Do you have liability insurance?

I dont think small mill operators should be compared to Lowes/lumber yards when it comes to prices. You got to sell your service and have some respect for your labor/equipment.