iDRY Vacuum Kilns

Sponsors:

Hydraulic-hybrid powertrain

Started by Furby, June 29, 2005, 02:14:39 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Furby

Though I'd get everyones take on this:

Hybrid hydraulic system attracts attention worldwide
Powertrain allows hydraulics to run vehicle on stored power

Deerfield, Michigan

James O'Brien, owner of O'Brien Engineered Products Inc. and most recently Hybra-Drive Systems, runs his business out of a modest facility in Deerfield.

What he does in that facility however, is attracting the attention of onlookers not only in Michigan but from around the world, from Canada to Taiwan.

During the past three years, O'Brien has developed a new form of hybrid technology, gained the backing of several investors and tested the product on a vehicle.

"We are not aware of anything else like it," O'Brien said.

Recently, O'Brien and his team of employees put together a small hydraulic-hybrid powertrain system in the back of an old Volkswagen Beetle to test the technology.

After starting a lawnmower engine and letting it run for about a minute, the engine was turned off, allowing the hydraulic system to run the vehicle on stored power.

Hybra-Drive Systems, a product development firm, has developed a full hydraulic-hybrid system and is rushing to install it in a delivery truck belonging to Arrow Uniform. Working with Arrow Uniform and Kettering University in Flint, known for vehicle engineering expertise, the business plans to have it's first hybrid vehicle operating by the end of the year, O'Brien said.

Taylor-based Arrow develops and supplies work wear and image apparel programs to more then 15,000 Midwest businesses, and has signed up as O'Brien's first official customer. The company even donated one of it's vans for O'Brien to use as a concept vehicle. Eventually, the company would like the hydraulic-hybrid powertrain system placed in all it's fleet vehicles, O'Brien said.

"This new powertrain is more efficient the electric hybrid powertrains being used in such cars as Toyota Prius and Ford Escape," O'Brien said.

Hybra-Drive hopes to have at least 10 vehicles with the new system in place by spring of 2006, O'Brien said.

O'Brien predicts vehicles that will have his system in place will achieve a 65 percent to 75 percent improvement in fuel economy. Most vehicles are expected to reach around 50 miles per gallon, he said.

theonlybull

interesting,  but knowing the innefficencies in a hydrulic system, i wonder how they can make it work....
Keith Berry & Son Ltd.
machine work and welding

bryan

  Man , That sounds real good right about now with the fuel prices and all.I hope it works!

Furby

The pic I saw showed a pretty small engine, large push mower or maybe a small ride on mower.
I have been wondering about the hydraulics up here in the winter ???
I also wish I had more info on how exactly it works.

Buzz-sawyer

Concept has been around for many years.....I have some schematics around here soeme where........ :)
Look in Mother Earth news NOVEBER 1977 :D ;)
    HEAR THAT BLADE SING!

tnlogger

 buzz you sure it an't in one of yar foxe fire books  :P ;D
gene

Buzz-sawyer

Some of my favorites next to the Good Book ;)
    HEAR THAT BLADE SING!

Gary_C

The real question is how are they storing the power when the engine is not running. Since you can not compress hydraulic fluid the only known way to store power with it is to burn it as fuel.

They also scorn electric hybrids so they must not be using battries for storage.

The only advantage a hydraulic hybred would have is it would be different and less efficient than electric, but not necessarily better.
Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.

Fla._Deadheader



  I wood guess Accumulators, to say, 5000#. Only thig is, ya gotta keep recharging them.  A little gas engine will not keep up with any real demand.
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

Buzz-sawyer

You win the brass cookie deadhead!
5000# acc.....In 1978 A school shop teacher and his students converted a VW into a gas/hydraulic hybrid that got a verifyable 75mpg with sa ridding lawn mower engine.
The previous year a man built one using a ford granada for power.......US postal service was gonna start a fleet the next year...........he jumped through ALL the hoops.......the idea seemed to get lost in the paperwork :o :o :o :D
furby the guy who supposes he "CEATED" a new technology is full of gas!!
The first rig was built in the 1920's and called ,"The car of the future!" :D :D :D :D
    HEAR THAT BLADE SING!

Fla._Deadheader



  Buzz, I remember that article. They started with the VW and then switched to the mower engine. They installed a Bradley GT Fibreglass body.  ;) ;D ;D




    Rodney
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

Buzz-sawyer

I am not a conspiract theory NUT.......(Im a different kida one)...but
The technology is SIMPLE, practical and converts so much wasted power into usable power (brake.....idle)
When you see how the department of standards certified the 1977 car, and the Postal service approved it....and other U.S depts of the ALPHABETand yet ...it never got a a trial run .......at a cost of 2-3 hundred extra per detroit assembly line .(averaged)....................
What  can explain it...?????
    HEAR THAT BLADE SING!

Fla._Deadheader



  G R E E D      O I L      P A Y O F F S
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

submarinesailor

Stumbled across this while reading an energy report from GLOBAL INSIGHT:

"By 2020, 15-25% of heavy-duty vehicles globally will incorporate either hybrid electric or hydraulic hybrid technology. The rapid deployment of hybrid technology in the heavy-duty vehicle industry can partly be attributed to the fact that commercial vehicle operators have regularly scheduled routes and can therefore accurately calculate how much money they will save on fuel and brake maintenance by investing in the more fuel-efficient hybrid vehicles."

Bruce

Furby

The one advantage over an electric hybrid that I can see is....batteries.

HybraDrive

Thanks every one for you interest.
Just to update you on some information
1 The guy with the car of the future may have been right

2 One of the teachers that developed one of the concepts during the 50's~70's is an advisor to Hybra-Drive systems.

3 We will be using much larger engines in the delivery trucks to keep the accumulators charged at all times. You are currect that 6.5HP is not enough to properly operate a delivory truck.

Please consider that a 68 Beetle was powered by a 25~40 HP engine that is why we can work with a 6.5HP engine on our 1700lb chassis.

Again Thanks for your interest and I look forward to when more information can be shared with all of you.

Jim O'Brien

Fla._Deadheader


Well Howdy, Jim O'brien. Only thing is, we ain't lettin ya off so easy.  ::) ::)

  What's yer background ?? What's yer interests ??  Got any new info to add to this discussion ??
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

HybraDrive

Nothing about this project has been easy.
First off I'm and electrical engineer and have been trying to get an electric car to work right since the early 1980's. I've had the same trouble with short range as GM, Ford and countless others. The main issue with the electric motors is the dynamic load a vehicle places on the power train and the relatively low energy storage density of batteries. Then there are the disposal problems with batteries.

About 4 years ago I found out just how efficient hydraulics are, and have been applying what I know about electric hybrids to hydraulic design.
The approach has paid off so far and by the end of this year we expect to have a delivery truck dropping off clean clothing all around Toledo, OH and Michigan. Please also note that hydraulic oils can easily be recycled much like motor oil and completely biodegradable versions of hydraulic oil are also becoming available.

Go ahead and be skeptical everyone is until they see the Beetle driving around.

Jim

Buzz-sawyer

Welcome to the discussion nice to hear from a developer!

You said "Go ahead and be skeptical everyone is until they see the Beetle driving around."

I dont know who your adressing that to ???............. but almost all the people who posted on this thread either experiment with or believe in using these type of technologies.............. ??? ??? :)


    HEAR THAT BLADE SING!

J_T

Jim Holloway

Fla._Deadheader


  Probably responding to me.  >:(  I was just tryin to be friendly.  ::)  Oh Well. :-\ :-\
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

Gary_C

I guess I must be one of the "almost all of the people" and yes, I am very skeptical without more information. I am just guessing with what little information has been shown, but I know that a hydraulic accumulator must actually be a pneumatic or gas charged accumulator since there is no known way to store energy or compress hydraulic fluid. Gas charged accumulators or hydraulic shock absorbers are being used in many ways today, but not to store large amounts of energy. My forwarder has a small gas charged accumulator that is a fail safe on the hydraulic brake circuit only.

Any 5000 psi gas charged accumulator of sufficient size to power a motor vehicle would be a very large, heavy duty pressure vessel. Even a propane tank would be less hazardous because if it ruptured, the only way to release all of it's energy would be to mix the propane with air and then ignite it.  Even if a hose developed a pin hole leak, at 5000 psi that hydraulic fluid could cut thru just about anything and if the tank ruptured it could take out anything within 100 feet. If you mounted that accumulator vertically and the hose on the bottom broke, it would be like a bottle rocket and that vehicle could become airborne.

I could become a believer, but not with the information I have seen here.

Oh and I also have never believed any of those stories about the magic carburator patents that were bought up by the oil companies. Back in the 60's there actually was a better carburator and it is now called fuel injection.
Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.

HybraDrive

Sorry if I cam off as rude. That was not my intent. I'm just trying to be open as possible about a technology that some parts of the technology need to stay in house for now.
Feel free to ask questions. I'll answer what seems safe to me to disclose. Your questions are actually shaping how we launch the product since this form is the closest thing Hybra-Drive has to direct contact with future users.
My reference to skeptical is also not a defensive comment. It is an invitation. Since the harder you make us think now the better prepared we will become for the contracts we are trying to close.
As to size of accumulators; Launch assist technology like Dana and PermaDrive have been testing show how a relatively small accumulator can have dramatic effects on how efficient a combustion engine operates.

As to limited information; The searches only bring up one article over and over again. Once our web sight is repaired we will let you see a video of the first concept pump/motor functioning demonstrating a variable displacement gear type pump and another video of the beetle driving around our parking lot with a 6.5 HP brigs engine. At this small scale of our technology but it should be clear that we are getting a lot more that you would expect from an engine that would normally be used on a self propelled mower.


Jim

Fla._Deadheader


I'm gonna try this, one more time.  ::)

  As soon as a new idea is brought forward, there are those that have "Stats" as to why it would cost so much to do "NEW" Energy. Then, everyone has their own personal agenda as to why something won't work, or, it will cost millions to start up something.  >:( >:(

  I am NOT about to tell someone something won't work, unless I have been there-done that. God knows I don't take advice well.  ::) ::) ;D

  That aside, I would like to see things approached as to actual usage, not conjecture.

  Running around a parking lot is fine. What about wind load at 60 MPH. ??What about climbing and descending hills at 60 MPH ??  What about 1 more passenger load, or a small pick-up truck with load ??

  Practical use is what attracts me to Alt. Energy. I am not about to drive a "City-Car" on the highway, at 35 MPH.

  I don't want to rain on anyone's parade.   ::) ???  Let's talk  ;) :) :)
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

HybraDrive

It has been a wile but some reports as to Hydraulic hybrids can preform please look up the EPA's artical where they forcast up to 55% efficency increase compared to the 30%~38% increace in efficancy from electric hybrids. We put some links on our still rough web sight Hybra-drive.com

Thanks everyone for the feed back on this sight I'll try to stay more connected in the future.

Jim

Thank You Sponsors!