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Onan P224 Coil ?

Started by Jeff, June 24, 2005, 07:25:53 PM

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Jeff

Can anyone tell me if these are the same coil?

THe part number on my coil is onan number 166-0761

Wood-mizer parts sheet numbers are
Wood-Mizer# P06827 and beside it it says Onan 614-0523

The feller I talked to at Wood-Mizer said they only have one coil, well those numbers aint even close. Tammy's Mechanic called somewhere today and found my numbers, but Tammy told him I could just get it at Wood-Mizer, so he didnt order it and niether did I cause I think something is fishy. :-\

Pretty sure the Onan 24 on my machine came from somewhere else other then Wood-Mizer.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

KILROY

 Jeff.
The replacement coil you will get will not match the one on your motor. It will not look your coil and it will not mount in the same posotion. It will run the motor though. Part number 166-0820 from Onan is the replacement coil. I just went outside and copied that number off from the coil I got from Onan.  A bracket will come with it. I went through this with Onan about two years ago. They do not make that old coil anymore unless you can find one on a dealers shelf somewhere. I doubt this because they have computerized inventory.  WM's numbers and Onan's numbers never have matched when looking for parts for me any. There is a plate on the motor use the information off from it. Even that plate has both companies numbers. Find a local Onan dealer and they can get the right coil.
When WM quit using Onan motors they no longer had access to all the parts. I do not know how it is today.
What is your engine doing? If it is firing on both cylinders it is probably not the coil. If it is not firing at all. It is the electronic pickup behind the flywheel. They tell me there is no way to test it except put a new one on and see if it runs. I have been through two of those and three coils.
If your engine is running clean the carburetor. You will be suprised how much trash and water, especially water, will be found in the carburetor.
That air filter can get clogged in short order too.





Jeff

When the engine runs for over a half hour or so, it suddenly starts missing badly and loses power. Like it is running on one cylinder. When it cools down, it runs what I would call O.K.   Tammy's mechanic from the Bus Garage says he has the same engine on a miller welder and he had the very same symptoms and it was his coil, so that is kinda what I am going by.  I have one coil, with two spark plug wires coming out of it.


It does not seem like a carb problem.  One exaust spews fuel when it starts running bad though.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

VA-Sawyer

Jeff,
You may want to check the valve lash. If it has too little then the exhaust valve may be staying open during the compression stroke. This will allow the fuel mixture to come out the exhaust and cause a loss of power. You can check for a coil breakdown with a DC powered timing light. Put it on the side you think is failing and run the engine. When it starts missing, check to see if the light is flashing steady or 'missing' the same as the engine. Is it possible to swap the plug wires and see if the problem moves to the other cylinder ?  I'll take another look at mine tomorrow.
VA-Sawyer

Jeff

I doubt its valve lash as the problem only occurs after running the engine for a half hour or so and then it suddenly starts running poorly.  Shut it down and start it several hours later, and it will be fine, run it for just a few minutes, one log say, its fine, run it a little longer and it will all at once start running poorly.

In order to clean the carb, do I need new intake gasgets? You have to take the intake manifild off to remove the carb.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

VA-Sawyer

Jeff,
Valve lash can show up as a thermal problem. The clearance decreases as the engine gets hotter. If it reaches zero clearance then the valve is held open.
Look for a drain plug on the lower side of the carb. I drain mine when I do the oil change. If you can catch the fuel coming out in a little cup, it will allow you to see if you had junk in the bowl.
VA-Sawyer

Jeff

I still gotta think that a valve lash problem would show itself as an oncoming event, even if thermally induced.  this is like somebody throws a switch.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

VA-Sawyer

The harder you run it the quicker it acts up right ?

Jeff

No, it can do it just stting there idling. 
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

VA-Sawyer

Jeff,
I went and got the manual, both spark plugs fire at the same time. If you have seperate exhaust stacks then swap the plug wires and see if the problem moves to the other stack. If it does, then the coil is the problem. WM Manual says P06827 is the correct one. My onan parts manual says the orig PN was 166-0761. If the problem doesn't move to the other side then the coil is probably OK.
VA-Sawyer

Jeff

I'll try that, thats a good idea.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

KILROY

 Jeff,
Let me start with the carburetor. No you do not need a new gasket right now. If it looks ok use it. Do not remove the carburetor just to clean it. Take the air filter and housing off. There should be four screw on top of the carburetor. Remove them and lift it off. On the side of the carburetor there is a drain screw. Take it off. Do not lose the little washer! Try to deflect some of the gas or try to catch it. Take some cheap carburetor cleaner(W Mart) spray and clean everything. Take a paper towel and needle nose pliers to wipe the inside of the bowl.Get all the way to the bottom.  When everything looks clean put it back together.
Your coil may be going bad. Is it always the same cylinder that quits running? If it is, swich the wires on the coil to see if the other cylinder will fail. If it does than you are right another coil is needed. It won't hurt to switch the wires because they both fire at the same time anyway. The coil may be breaking down when it gets hot. Borrow that mechanics coil for a day and see if the symptoms are still there.

Minnesota_boy

Jeff,
Don't be afraid to change out the spark plugs.  I've had plugs do the same thing.
I eat a high-fiber diet.  Lots of sawdust!

Jeff

Thats where I started. I thought I had the problem licked.  Figured it was a fouled plug. Couldnt get the right plugs til the next day, so when I put them in and things ran great I figured that was it. No such luck. :-\
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

VA-Sawyer

Well ?  What did you find ?

Jeff

I posted on another thread last night that I had other duties today. :)
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

isawlogs

 Jeff
I have one of those P24 on my mill . I took the carb off last year and cleaned it , did not have to take the intake off ... two nuts on the bottom of carb .. they are not easy to get at but can be taken off if you want to clean it off the engin .
There is also a ground wire from the coil that goes down to the switch ... along where the fuel pump is ... make sure that it is grounding well that thing had me going for a good while . Mill was acting just as you say .
A man does not always grow wise as he grows old , but he always grows old as he grows wise .

   Marcel

Dangerous_Dan

Switching the plug wires will do nothing for which cylinder is missing. On 2 cylinder onan engines the spark plugs fire at the same time, once on the power stroke and and again on the exhaust, for both cylinders.
The spark originates at the coil and goes to the first spark plug jumps the gap to the block then through the block and then jumps the gap on the second plug to get to back to the coil.
Sounds like a bad plug or you need a valve adjustment.
Another possibility may be that one of your spark pug wires has a bad spot in the insulation and is arcing to the block somewhere.
What is the exact model of the engine and whats the HP?
First you make it work, then you trick it out!

Jeff

Its a P224  24 horse.  I don't know if its just one cylinder not fireing at this point, it just acts like it could be.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

KILROY


Dan,
The reason to switch the coil wires is to see if the coil is bad. If only one cylinder is firing properly, by switching the coil wires you try switch the symptoms between cylinders.

Jeff

I am on my way out to clean the carb. I will try and get some pictures of what I find for future reference on the forum.  :)
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Jeff

Well, it certainly needed it. I got lots of crud out of the thing. Once cleaned up it didnt seem to start or run any differently them before however.  I'll know more when I run it. I need to saw about 100 BF of cedar yet ASAP so that should tell me if its better.

The first picture does not have anything to do with cleaning the carb but is a pic of one of the plugs that have less then one hour on them. They both look like this.



Top of the Carb off


draining and catching some gas.


yeck!


Before mopping out, pretty cruddy.


After mopping out, very cruddy.


There was enough in there to remove it with tweezers.



All clean assembled, and ready to put the breather top on.

Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

KILROY


Jeff,
Now that wasn't hard was it? It is a wonder it ran at all with that much trash in it. Now you can check that off from the list of potential problems.
If you can borrow that mechanics coil for a day would help determine if it is the coil.
Good luck.

Jeff

Does anyone feel that a condenser could degrade and cause problems?
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

KILROY

Jeff,
I do not think that would be your problem. I have had the condenser wire break and the motor ran the same. Ran it like that for a while until I bought a new condenser.

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