iDRY Vacuum Kilns

Sponsors:

Wood fired boiler to power air conditioner/chiller

Started by Buzz-sawyer, June 23, 2005, 03:51:02 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Buzz-sawyer

Nothing new or novel about this idea.......just need some help in the practical side of scaling it down and making it work ....here are the basics.

Using existing wood fired boiler to run a loop of regulated 160-180 degree water to a chiller.

The chiller is water/ammonia type used in industry, often powered by waste heat.

I AM NOT a HVAC guy by trade but am pretty familiar with plumbing, thermo-dynamics, vac.ETAL.

Any wild suggestions from your own MAD schemes .......or something in this order you have seen somewhere....???

    HEAR THAT BLADE SING!

ronwood

Buzz,

I just made a post asking for an explaination of what yopu just described. I bought a Central Boiler a couple of months ago and am in the process of installing it. The model that I have you can control the temperature. Quit interested in the subject.

Thanks
Ron
Sawing part time mostly urban logs -St. Louis/Warrenton, Mo.
LT40HG25 Woodmizer Sawmill
LX885 New Holland Skidsteer

Buzz-sawyer

OK
The idea is to use CONTINUOUS-CYCLE ABSORPTION SYSTEM , the continuous-cycle absorption cooling unit is operated by the application of a limited amount of heat.

This heat is furnished in this case by wood waste. No moving parts are employed.
The operation of the refrigerating mechanism is based on Dalton's Law.

Absorption chillers come in two commercially available designs: single-effect and double-effect the solar powered chillers are venturing into triple effect efficiencies.

absorption chillers can substantially reduce operating costs because they are powered by low-grade waste heat. Vapor compression chillers, by contrast, must be motor- or engine-driven........But there are NO moving parts in an absorbtion system.......the BEAUTY OF SIMPLICITY!



    HEAR THAT BLADE SING!

SwampDonkey

"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

maple flats

Good luck on this one, I used to sell outdoor wood fired units and the mfgr had a cooler they were working on to do just that. Their engineer got it to cool but they had to keep the water temp up to 208 degrees and it cooled. They kept having the problem of the unit frosting up when the humidity got high and they were never able to find a solution. They eventually gave up after spending over 5 years on building test models and trying different ideas and I'm sure spending literally hundreds of thousands of dollars to no avail. BUT, many great inventions have followed a long list of failures. Good Luck.
logging small time for years but just learning how,  2012 36 HP Mahindra tractor, 3point log arch, 8000# class excavator, lifts 2500# and sets logs on mill precisely where needed, Woodland Mills HM130Max , maple syrup a hobby that consumes my time. looking to learn blacksmithing.

wiam

Buzz, I know nothing about this but I am quite interested.

Will

Buzz-sawyer

I dont consider the workability or viability of doing this an issue..........

First of all I am NOT an engineer.....so I dont know what I CANT do... :D :D :D

Second.....Thousands of these units are in operation all over the world........mostly LARGER.........but in for a penny in for a pound.......

Third.........I wont be spending hundreds of thousands of dollars.......so that wont be a problem


Fourth.... Literally milions of absorbtion units are functioning on RV"S and remote cabins all over the world....powered by propane karosene etc.......They burn at a consistent temp.....
Solar refrigeration units of the type I described are in use ALL OVER the world........If I can mimic then Just might work

Fifth......Im to ignorant to know better :D :D :D
    HEAR THAT BLADE SING!

wiam

Buzz I have done things and found out after that they were not possible ::) ::)

Will

Buzz-sawyer

Out of 2500 members of this forum there has to be at least one HVAC type that produces wood waste that has had the same idea?!?! :D :D :D
    HEAR THAT BLADE SING!

trim4u2nv

My freinds dad had some natural gas powered refrigeration when we were kids.   He worked for the gas company.  I think these were ammonia, not cfc based systems.  Got me wondering if I took apart my old butchers freezer (NH3) and my  proposed  truck wood gasifier and combined the two.  So many ideas so little time!

ronwood

Buzz,

What if you could use a refrigeration unit from a tractor trailer that carrys frozen food. I not sure how they work but I think they are power with diseal fuel. 

Ron
 
Sawing part time mostly urban logs -St. Louis/Warrenton, Mo.
LT40HG25 Woodmizer Sawmill
LX885 New Holland Skidsteer

Buzz-sawyer

Well Ron
I like the idea but that is kinda different type project

.they have a diesel engine, compressor, cfc refrigerant..........basically a standard unit with a zillion moving parts........the one I am talking about has NO moving parts.......which is part of the fun ;) :D :D
    HEAR THAT BLADE SING!

JimBuis

In a former life, I was a heating mechanic, i.e. did everything on the heating side of things.  What equipment do you have versus what you need to acquire?  What are you going to heat and/or cool?  House, garage, something else, all of the above? ???

Jim
Jim Buis                             Peterson 10" WPF swingmill

Buzz-sawyer

My goal , in more practical terms, is to be able to cool one households freezer needs and refrigerator as well as a 2500 foot home .....recon about 5 tons?

Can common black pipe be used with hydrous ammonia ?

I am a competant welder, (was a certified welder)........

refrigerant temperatures of 45° to 50° F (7.2° to 10° C) are suitable. In this temperature range, water can be used as a refrigerant with an aqueous salt solution, usually lithium bromide, as the absorbent material...........this seems like a good possibility!?!?
    HEAR THAT BLADE SING!

Corley5

I'm interested :) :)  I have no idea how this works but I'd sure like to be able to use my wood boiler for air conditioning ;D
Burnt Gunpowder is the Smell Of Freedom

Corley5

Is this the same principle that gas refrigerators work on ??? 
Burnt Gunpowder is the Smell Of Freedom

Buzz-sawyer

    HEAR THAT BLADE SING!

J_T

Buzz course I have  8) The old ice house used amonia not sure the type . I scraped one once they had a pipe inside a pipe been a long time. They had huge compressors also I mean big 8). With the wood fire idia I just got off on sompthing else and never came back .. In case of over heat I think you would need to dump in an accumalator as a bypass and at the same time pressure regulated at around 70lbs low side and not exceed 500 high side . The gas units at least the older ons were trouble . Mane thing I think you would need is a bunch of time  copper tube if using R 22 which you could blow real cold off of and a bunch of sealfoss and t stats . Hope I didn't over bore everyone   Pm me some time Buzz or call
Jim Holloway

Buzz-sawyer

JT
Thanks.....but you aint boring no one.....thats what this thread is about 8) 8) 8) 8)
What I am needing is some plain ideas about what kind of material, amount of coolant etc...
I want to go with a absorber...no moving parts type unit...........
    HEAR THAT BLADE SING!

Don_Papenburg

Black pipe would work ,but nitrogen  is corrosive to steel and aluminum  . However the tanks are made of thick steel. The corrosion comes in when oxygen gets involved.If you plan to keep it for a long time try to find a deal on stainless.
Frick saw mill  '58   820 John Deere power. Diamond T trucks

Buzz-sawyer

Thanks Don
About the nitrogen in the NH3....how does the oxygen get in a closed system?
Have you built anything likr this?
Buzz
    HEAR THAT BLADE SING!

Kirk_Allen

Buzz we need to spend a day over at Dads. I have some stuff stored over there that would blow your mind. 

On thing that comes to mind to make the WATER BETTER is long chain polymers.  We patented a process for rapidly disolving water based polymers, thus making the water thicker or more viscous.  Lots of advantages to that.  The problem has always been getting the polymers to go into solution.  We fixed that. 

Its on the shelf right now waiting on $$$$ to take it to market.  We do the same thing with both petrochemical based products and acids. 

Like I said, we should go play for a day.  I think you would have a ball! 

Fla._Deadheader

All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

SwampDonkey

"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

J_T

Buzz using R22 all you would be doing is making a sustem like an rv refrigretor uses .Things to control would be exess heat or low heat of the R22 .Got to keep pressures right .Don't rember how the gas fired rv unit worked gitting old . You wouldn't need to get as cold as they do. I beleve a back yard engeenner could build one and keep it going but would be hard to make for everyone as some can't keep a pet rock alive ::) And it could drive a repair Co up a wall and the cost would kill them. I get lots my sensors and contactors and transformers from old central units .Might consider putting a compressor in line to conpensatet for ballance of odd temp. As in holding low side pressure at 65lbs. On that old ice house they used amoinia like someone said in a closed loop and chilled brine and set large bucketts in a vat and made huge ice blocks.Buddy of mine helped install unit in Plano Tx on JC penny building if I rember right it is a large icemaker  makes ice in off peak hours and dumps it in a ben and blows air across it to cool the whole place . So I am sure you can make sompthing that will work using your boller . I got some high and low side coils and a large compressor that will pump most types freons been thinking about building a kiln one thees days . But my round tuit is square at present  :D :D Can't have air in any theese systems. Kirk may be on to sompthing too. If you can put a bunch of idia's together no telling what you can come up with  8) Rember Coloumbus took a chance and look at us now :D :D Using freon you just need good filters and pull a good vachum any time you break into the lines on a high mosture day or if open long. You can build a vacum pump in a few mimetts if you don;t have one and it will work as a compressor too. Or I can loan you my store bought one  ??? On the heat side of a boller we used a high side coil from an old ac unit to heat a house trayler and it wooks good and was free has been working two years so far.Much cheeper than the ones they want to sell you.
Jim Holloway

Thank You Sponsors!