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LT15 engine choices

Started by J Beyer, July 16, 2002, 11:37:04 AM

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J Beyer

Just a few questions on the WM LT15 engine choices.  I know that it is available with the gasoline 13/15hp choices, but what about a diesel option?  There was one setup with a 10hp diesel at the 20th anniversary party, just wondering if anyone out there has one and would like input on the diesel option from them.

Also, how would the 10hp diesel compare to the 15hp gasoline engine for cutting performance, engine life, and fuel consumption.

JB

"From my cold, dead, hands you dirty Liberals"

WoodChucker

QuoteJust a few questions on the WM LT15 engine choices.  I know that it is available with the gasoline 13/15hp choices, but what about a diesel option?  There was one setup with a 10hp diesel at the 20th anniversary party, just wondering if anyone out there has one and would like input on the diesel option from them.

Also, how would the 10hp diesel compare to the 15hp gasoline engine for cutting performance, engine life, and fuel consumption.

JB


JB, I just got my LT-15 and I'm pretty sure the 15hp is now standard equipment on it, there could be a diesel engine for it, but I was never told about it when I bought mine. The 15hp seems to do a good job, I've been cutting red oak with it sense I got it and I've not had any problems with it.  The diesel might be a good way to go, but I'm not sure. Anyway, good luck to ya on what ever you get, I'm sure you'll like it!

R.T.
If a Husband & Wife are alone in the forrest fighting and no one is around to hear them, is he still wrong anyway?

D._Frederick

JB,
Ask WM for the torque curves for these two engines and compare them for the RPM that they are run at. If they have about the same torque at the same rpm then either could be used.  I would question if the extra money  for t he diesel engine is well spent.  These small air cooled engines don't have a long life and in most cases are not worth rebuilding.

Bro. Noble

We completely rebuilt a 24hp Onan off of a LT40.  It had been run low on oil.  Had to regrind crank, put in oversize parts etc.  My Dad who was about 75 at the time did all of the work.  Parts and labor for machine work totaled about $250.  Dad is a retired mechanical engineer who spent many years designing engines for Caterpillar.  He was very impressed with the Onan engine and felt it could be rebuilt 2 or 3 times more.  It ran like a top for a couple of years when we traded for a LT40 hydrolyc.

The smaller engines may be a different story.

Noble
milking and logging and sawing and milking

Bibbyman

I know you guys are thinking mobile but there looks to be another power source that may be available soon for the LT15 and that is electric.  They sale a 3ph electric LT15 in Europe now and I seen one at the Wood-Mizer party last month.  I even ask if they could bring one out in single phase and I got a big grin. (Ok,  maybe they were laughing at me.:D )

Just think of the urban setting where you could set up an LT15 on your back patio or behind your garage or even in your garage and the neighbors would not complain about the noise or fumes.   The electric powered mill should be less expansive to buy and to run.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDE25 Super 25hp 3ph with Command Control and Accuset.
Sawing since '94

whitepe

It is my understanding that a diesel engine option
is coming very soon for the LT15. My LT15 (with 15hp)
that I acquired in March does lug down a little bit
when cutting red oak.  Using the water lube system
helps in this regard.  I currently work for Caterpillar
in the department that develops electronic controls
for diesel engines.   As a general rule of thumb,
a diesel engine with x horsepower will have a better
torque rise than a gasoline engine with x horsepower.
In my opinion, and maybe I am biased, a diesel engine
would be a much better choice.  ;D
Someday when I upgrade from my LT15, I will get a mill
with a diesel engine on it.
So many mills,  so little money.  :D
blue by day, orange by night and green in between

D._Frederick

Whitepe,
I sure would not argue with your last posting  about Cat diesels, but you are not looking at a heavy cast iron engine on WM 15.  These light weight aluminum diesel engines do not have a very long life and they cost about  3x more than the 15 hp gas. Were I am in NW the the savings in fuel cost is small, if you buy your fuel at the gas station the price is the same.

J Beyer

Now that I think about it, I know that I can easily work on the gasoline version.  On the diesel engine I would be lost on fixing it.  Besides, I have most of the tools to tear down and repair the gas engine.

The Winner  :):  small gasoline engine.

JB
"From my cold, dead, hands you dirty Liberals"

DanG

I agree that the gas engine is probably more than adequate for the LT-15.  You'd wring yer arm off at the shoulder, cranking that thing long enough to wear out the motor. ;D

JB, the diesels are easier to work on, than a gas engine. There ain't no carburetor, and there ain't no ignition system. If the fuel gets there at the right time, and you got compression, it'll run. In the winter(N. Fla) my tractor will turn over about 2 revs before firing up. In the summer, you barely hear the starter before it starts. I've owned about 15 diesel engines of various sorts, and the only problems I've ever had were head bolts and head gaskets. Clean threads, new bolts, and a good torque wrench usually takes care of all that.
"I don't feel like an old man.  I feel like a young man who has something wrong with him."  Dick Cavett
"Beat not thy sword into a plowshare, rather beat the sword of thine enemy into a plowshare."

Bibbyman

Ah-Hah!

Wood-Mizer has just announced that they are making the LT15 available in 10hp single phase.  (See my post above).

Wood-Mizer 10hp single phase

I'd think that would be just the ticket for the urban sawyer who wanted to keep noise and such to a minimum. Could set up under sundeck,  in basement,  back of utility shed.  

Don't know what the power requiremets are but maybe could plug right into a welder plug or dryer?
Wood-Mizer LT40HDE25 Super 25hp 3ph with Command Control and Accuset.
Sawing since '94

Tom

That would take a lo-o-oo-o-ong extension cord. :'(

Furby

It SHOULD be able to run off a generator as well.

Larry

Bibby,
I got a 10 HP Baldor motor a couple of years ago with the idea of replacing the 16 HP Briggs Vanguard on my mill.  Just went out and checked, the plate says 40 amps so it could plug in to most typical welder outlets but would be a little heavy for a dryer plug as most of them are 30 amps.

I would really like to hear how WM compares it to the 15 HP gas.  I don't want to give up any speed on the band but definitely would like to get rid of the noise, oil changes, gas and maintenance.

I think electric is the only way to go if you if you don't want to be mobile.
Larry, making useful and beautiful things out of the most environmental friendly material on the planet.

We need to insure our customers understand the importance of our craft.

biziedizie

I agree with you there Larry, if I stay stationary and don't see the point of ever going mobile I think I would switch to hydro.
  I swear that this mill is making me deaf as I keep saying huh? when people talk to me. :D

     Steve

Fla._Deadheader

Hey Diz; Don'T say huh??. Just shake yer head and smile a lot. Werks fer me ::) :D :D :D
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

biziedizie

I just might have to try that! Maybe one day people will just stop trying to talk to me. :D Then I can just mumble and hand them a bill and go back to sawing and talking to myself. :D

     Steve

D._Frederick

Larry,
Your 10 hp Baldor motor will pull the pants off of your 16 hp Briggs. The rule of thumb is that 1 hp ele = 2 1/2 hp gas engine. You should have a 50 amp breaker with No. 8 wire to the motor. This motor is rated 30 ft-lbs torque full load and will pull over 60 for short periods. You gas engines are rated at maximum torgue and go down from there. The only problem you will have is that you cannot stop and start them every cut, or you will over heat the starting winding.

Bibbyman

Running with an electric motor is quite a change from running an engine.  

The electric motor hit it's RPMs and then runs there – no low idle/top end.  We don't always stop the blade on return trips like you would an engine.   We will always stop the blade when we have to turn a lot or we're not going to make the next cut right away.  One reason is that the drive belts tighten up on a pulley running full RPM – not at a low idle so it tends to burn the belts more.  Plus, as it's going to run at full RPM, there is no economic advantage to disengaging the drive.

Our E25 cost about 1/3 of what it cost to feed the smaller  fuel engine.  Not counting that we don't need filters, oil, plugs, etc.

 8)
Wood-Mizer LT40HDE25 Super 25hp 3ph with Command Control and Accuset.
Sawing since '94

D._Frederick

Bibby,
I have to dissagree with your last posting, everly turn your blade makes, the closer it is to breaking sawing or not.

Bibbyman

No argument there!  But give up a little blade life for main drive belt and break band life.  It's one or the other.  It's a trade off.  The bottom line it's faster – especially in short logs.
  
Stopping the blade may be more practical on the LT15 because of the manual feed.  

Our LT40 Super has a return speed or 200 f/m.  You'd spend more time stopping and starting again than comin' back a'runnin'.  Often, we saw out the end,  bump up, drag back, hit the down switch (Accuset does the drop), hit the forward switch. BING, BANG, BOOM!  About as fast as you can read the sentence.  So it would take longer to stop again at the end of the cut and start again at the start of the cut.

Good friend Electric Al started us doing this and I never knowed the man to steer me wrong.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDE25 Super 25hp 3ph with Command Control and Accuset.
Sawing since '94

Larry

D you pushed me over the edge.  I plan on doing a major retrofit - upgrade of my mill this winter so electric it is.

Your also right about every turn the band makes it is closer to breaking but I disagree a little.  A lot of times I never disengage the drive mostly when I am cutting a walnut cant.  I cut 2 or 3 boards before I clutch to offbear.  I would cut more but the up drive on my carriage is slow.

Very seldom break a band but don't know if it is because of the way I sharpen or something else.
Larry, making useful and beautiful things out of the most environmental friendly material on the planet.

We need to insure our customers understand the importance of our craft.

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