iDRY Vacuum Kilns

Sponsors:

What should a fella do?

Started by sigidi, June 16, 2005, 08:48:49 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

sigidi

I approached our local Mayor regarding sourcing logs from council, or even getting council to use logs from tree's they had to put down and cutting them into useable tibmer.

I did get two little cut jobs from council and as far as I know no-one else has done cutting for council. Recently they asked me about cutting bridge decking out of logs they had received from a far corner of the shire. I put them onto the crane truck guys I use to haul my timber (and they got the job to haul it back into town) I was asked to quote on cutting this timber and there was a lot, something like 5-6 truck and dog trailer loads full. Dave my crane guy says his load capacity with the trailer is 22ton, so you'd think it would be close to 100-120ton of log to cut up.

Well my normal rate for cutting is $143 per cubic metre, I dropped it to $120 becuase of the volume they where talking. I just got off the phone with the works department supervisor and was told I didn't get the job. :'( I'm just gutted I know I could have doen the job for less, as I don't have payments to make on the mill, don't have any payments to make for any of my business equipment, so really only had to cover running costs of truck, chainsaw and mill. Which I figure to be around $175 a full day of cutting.

Know I feel like the biggest dope in the world for being 'greedy' and not giving a better rate for the work. Yeah sure I can say I didn't NEED the work, but I only get a few cut jobs a month at the moment and even at a much lower rate I could still have made money.

I've just bombed out like you would never beleive - what should I do?

Geese, I think if I contact him back and say I'll beat that price will they think I was trying to be a greedy bugger in the first place? Will they then think I won't do a good job? Geese this job would have meant a lot to my wife and kids. How could I have been so bloody stupid!!!!!

I know I could have made money off this job cutting at $50 a cube as it is all big section stuff and there is no log handleing - log handling done with machinery!!!

What the hell can I say to my Wife now??? :'( :-[
Always willing to help - Allan

Ironwood

Everyone deservse a fair wage for their time and effort, especially small business folks. I wouldn't worry, you had already given them some "consideration" as you had already taken some of the profit out of the job. If you are curious about the eventual contractor to mill it ask. I am always very up front with people, we all deserve that as well. Things cost money, all things, even those that are "free". I wouldn't feel bad, your playing the averages, and as long as ,,,on average you end up ahead then you are making progress.  REID
There is no scarcity of opportunity to make a living at what you love to do, there is only scarcity of resolve to make it happen.- Wayne Dyer

Brad_S.

I don't know if this applies to your situation, but I've found that often times bidding is just a sham formality, they already have/had someone in mind for the job but had to make it look legit by letting out bids.

My two cents (or what ever your currency is ???) would be to let it go. If you offer to do the job for still less, they may sense desperation and beat you down on every job from here on out. I know it's easier said than done, but my opinion is to stick to your guns.
"Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans." J. Lennon

Sawyerfortyish

Tell the wife to put a few more cups of water in the soup. She'll have to strech things out cause You blew it ;D. Seriously When I give a price on something I stick to it Weather it's low or high. I have to deal with land clearing guys that will clear a lot simply for the wood. They don't worry about insurance until something happens. You busted your hump paying for your equipment don't wear it out working to cheap.

Kirk_Allen

Dont sweat the little stuff.  Who ever got the job may not be the sawyer they thought or he may do just fine.  Chalk it up to a learning business experience.

I wouldnt hesitate to ask who got the job and if it was a bid then I would think you have a right to see what the winning bid was.  That will give you some insite for the next job.


sigidi

I'm still amazed by all this, as I feel I was the one who opened the door to council regarding getting timber cut, I've worked for them before and did a good job thast they where very happy with. I also put them onto the guy who brought the bloody timber into town for some other fella to cut >:(

I am drafting an email to them.....???

QuoteHi Mark,

thank you for giving me the opportunity to quote regarding the cutting at the crushing plant.

If for any reason, things don't work out with the miller you have contracted to perform the work, or you require the timber faster than can be produced with one sawyer. I would be happy to revise my initial quote to be inline with your current best quote.

Thank you for your time and consideration in this matter.

Feel free to contact me, if you have and questions or concerns.

Kind regards,

Allan Seagrave.

Do I hit the send key? I know I can bring in somwhere in the tune of $6,000 on this job alone!!! Ok fine would have lost out on about $1500 by dropping my price, but I can sit at home sticking to my guns getting no money in or I can be out working for $1500 less to get $6000???
Always willing to help - Allan

Ironwood

I would ommit the line about coming in to the other guy's price. If you are sitting at home not working then next time sharpen the pencil a bit more. REID
There is no scarcity of opportunity to make a living at what you love to do, there is only scarcity of resolve to make it happen.- Wayne Dyer

sigidi

All good advice, from some very good members,

Thanks for your advice. I know I can make money on this job cheaper then they have already accepted, but will it be perceived badly?

Also I don't want to go about a pricing war with the local sawyers, as I don't feel price should be everything. But geese I am bummed about missing out on this.

I just have to hope that the other fella has to pull out or something???
Always willing to help - Allan

Brad_S.

If you believe in a higher power, just trust that this was meant to be, or rather, not be. I can't tell you how many times I was upset about missing what I perceived to be an opportunity, only to find later that things were not as good as they appeared to be on the missed job or a better offer came along that I would not have been able to capitalize on if I were stuck on the lesser job.
Still, I know it's hard and I understand your disappointment and frustration. Next time, mate. ;)
"Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans." J. Lennon

Timo

In my 'day job' I do a lot of quotes/ bids. It is always a nail biting experience, especially when you already have something invested in the project, as you have in this one. You have to let it go.  I am currently clawing my way through a job where I offered to 'meet the other guy's price'. As it turns out, my estimate was right (in fact even I was to low!), and his was wrong. I'd have been much better off letting him learn the lesson, I should have known better and stuck to my guns.  Next time he'd have bid higher, and we would both be better off. It's easy to think you could do it lower, but how low do you go?

One thing I would suggest is, don't send that letter. Go and talk to the guy in person. While the letter, however good, will likely just get filed in the contract file, you might learn something useful from a conversationl that will help your bid next time.

I always find that for business (or any) communication, email is the worst, letters second worst (faxes as well), phoning second best, and a personal meeting the best of all.  You just can't temper your conversation to capture the moment in a letter or email. What you say is fixed and on the record.

Sorry to hear in about your situation. I feel your pain! ::) :'(
Peterson WPF27 with bipedal, dual grapple, 5'6" loader/ offloader

Ernie

Reid has the right idea.

Have you had a face to face with the mayor, do they have a time limit on the contract, is there a specified quality spec. and all that sort of thing.

As for what you say to your wife--- something about undying love :)

Good luck

Ernie
A very wise man once told me . Grand children are great, we should have had them first

sigidi

After my initial disapointment :( >:(  I have spoken to my wife and told her I missed out, funny thing, she hasn't said it for a very very long time, but like you said Brad, she said we don't know why it is for, but there is a reason for it? Maybe the other fella will find an old engine in the middle of a log  ;D :D

I'm just so depressed from this thing, it has really knocked me around.

I am going to send the rest of my day with our 2 year old daughter - she is home today instead of being at daycare all week, I will just keep tickling her until I feel better about all of this, she laughs so much and it is the best sound in the world next to tungsten in timber!!!!!!
Always willing to help - Allan

BBTom

I get new customers quite often tell me things like: " So and So down the road will cut it for 18 cents", or " 30 cents sounds a bit too high, can't you do it for less"

I always answer about the same, " That fella down the road should know what his service is worth, mine is worth 30 cents a bdft."

Then they normally admit that the guy down the road did a poor job last time, or won't bother with their 3 logs.

Give it your best shot and let it be.  Life is much too short to worry about one job.  If it was meant to be, the job will come back to you.

2001 LT40HDD42RA with lubemizer, debarker, laser, accuset. Retired, but building a new shop and home in Missouri.

Fla._Deadheader


I gotta agree 100% with BBTom. We get .35 a bdft. Too high for some folks. Others tell us how terrible the "Cheaper" guys lumber looks.

  Working for less money, means you have lowered your profit "Potential". There must be some other way to bolster yer income. Do you have the Slabber attachment?? There must be other trees you can get and slab them suckers. Leave the bark edge on the slabs.

  Cut what others are not cutting. Look at all the pics of table slabs in the "NZ field days" thread ???
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

Tom

That's the problem with bidding.  It is for the sake of the bidder getting the lowest price and sometimes that means the lowest job.   There is only one winner and the rest will feel like you.  Don't let it get you. Don't let anybody run your business but you.  Because you can do it for less doesn't mean that you should.  There are other business considerations that guide price and it's up to you to hold the line and make your business be what you want. 

I have people frequently tell me that I charge too little or charge too much.  I feel that i know what the market will bear and I stick with it.   I think that you will appreciate your self, later, for living with your bid decision.  It may even cause you to put pencil to paper and find that you should have asked for more.

Our local Governments have, more than once, found that the lowest bidder couldn't do the job and took the job away only to give it to the next in line or rebid the job.  You might not have heard the last of it.

The good thing about sawing logs is that there are a lot of more trees out there.  While that fellow is tied up sawing that job you wanted you might be sawing the jobs he can't get to.  You see, he's tied himself up for a while. :D

Percy

Heya Sigidi
Stuff like this happens to me all the time. Ive found whats best is to take it like a man and just carry on with day to day stuff like its a regular occurance, no hard feelings and all. Its easy cause for me , this "stuff" is regular occurrance. On  one occasion, I lost the bid, the fella who got it had to hire me to get it done. I stuck to my price and he still hired me.

Also, if there is more than one mill in your area, theres gotta be more opportunity about. Go diggin..heh.... I read somewhere    Winners Make Things Happen - Losers Let Things Happen... ;D ;D ;D

You'll be fine and you have learned somthing here. ;D ;D
GOLDEN RULE : The guy with the gold, makes the rules.

Buzz-sawyer

I have used competative bidding for over 20 years to make a living.
It is really very simple....Bid what you can live with, when the paper leaves your hand THATS ALL YOU CAN DO .........AND never recant or try to underbid your bid.
It will undermine your credibility,professionalism, and buisiness.
    HEAR THAT BLADE SING!

maple flats

In another business I was underbid once by about 20 some %, the guy went belly up before he even started the job and the bid was done again. I bid the same I had the first time and got the job. Still found I was a little too low, did not make what I needed to. I could afford to live on a little less and the next time when bids were done I bid the same job about 9% higher and got it. This time I was priced fairly for me and them.
logging small time for years but just learning how,  2012 36 HP Mahindra tractor, 3point log arch, 8000# class excavator, lifts 2500# and sets logs on mill precisely where needed, Woodland Mills HM130Max , maple syrup a hobby that consumes my time. looking to learn blacksmithing.

Sawyerfortyish

I bid on a 40 acre clear cut once. There was 135,000 bd ft of timber. I over bid everyone else by several thousand $. But the job was very close and everyone else was from out of state so the trucking for me cost very little. Everyone else had to keep the distance in mind when bidding. Not only did the logs have to be removed but there were 600+cords of firewood to be removed. When I bid the timber I only bid on timber that I had use for everthing else including the firewood I figured worth zero and still outbid everyone. Had I known what the next bid was below me I could have saved a bundle of $$$. But still made out very good on that job I was the only sawmill bidding against loggers that had to resell everything.

Slabs

Gee Sig'  Sounds like you live in Walton Co.,Florida.  Sometimes you just have to be one of the "Good-Old-Boy" "In" guys like down here.

I'm sure we all understand.
Slabs  : Offloader, slab and sawdust Mexican, mill mechanic and electrician, general flunky.  Woodshop, metal woorking shop and electronics shop.

sigidi

Well folkes,

thanks so much for the helping words.
After a couple o days of hearty overeating and a day or so of having my socks right down at the ground, I have pulled 'em right up and decided to propose my plan to neighbouring councils. I have three other's within possible range maybe four, and am in the process of putting a quick porposal to them re. milling tree's they may stockpile for tibmer they can use in council projects.

Will post to let you all know how this little venture turns out
Always willing to help - Allan

Thank You Sponsors!