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Greasing Bar Sprocket

Started by tdelorme, June 09, 2005, 12:22:49 PM

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tdelorme

I did a search on greasing bar sprockets and realize that some folks don't ever grease um at all.  But, how do those of you that do grease your bar sprockets do it?  I bought a little pump greaser at Lowe's that is junk.  Don't know who makes it but it says "made in Germany" on the side.  Is there a better greaser out there that works, or do I just keep fighting with what I have now.  It does have that real purtty blue colored grease in it, it just don't work worth a darn.  Thanks for any help.

Don_N6CRV

Hello, I grease mine every time i flip the bar. The grease gun i have is like most i have seen but it is a older one made out of metal. With just 2 or 3 pushes it will have grease comming out of the bar. When it gets empty i just refill it. I have seen some that looks like they have a plunger on the back of the head that might work even better. My Stihl bar does not have the holes to grease it but i try to force some in buy filling the bar tip with grease.
Don

Dan_Shade

your grease gun may have air in it.  I have a cheapo grease gun that works well enough.
Woodmizer LT40HDG25 / Stihl 066 alaskan
lots of dull bands and chains

There's a fine line between turning firewood into beautiful things and beautiful things into firewood.

Glenn

I used to use the small puch type grease gun but never liked it.  Now I use a regular sized pistal grip gease gun with an adapter on the end that fits the grease hole on the sprocket.  I grease every time I refill the gas.

Ironwood

I use the same grease as for the end gear on my husky brush cutter/ weed wacker. I grease the sprockets occasionally, but grease the weed wacker frequently as I learned the hard way that the gears cost long dollars($144). REID
There is no scarcity of opportunity to make a living at what you love to do, there is only scarcity of resolve to make it happen.- Wayne Dyer

slowzuki

I'm a grease when I think about it guy.  Probably every good saw cleaning so every 10 tanks of gas or so.  I noticed you can look in and see the little roller bearings in the tip.

I used a little pump grease thing that kind looks like a fat screwdriver with a hot melt glue gun tip on it.  The tip seems to fit well in the bar hole.

pallis

I quit greasing my saw tips once I figured out I'm better off not doing it.  But, before then, I got some big horse syringes from the vet, along with some large needles, cut a needle in two and had a perfect grease gun for the saw.  They come in handy for getting grease into small places, so I still keep a few around.

StihlDoc

Greasing of the bar nose was more needed with the old saws that had manual push button oilers. The modern saws with auto oilers utilize the bar oil as the main source of lube for the bar tip bearings. It is more recommended to grease the tip at the end of the day to help push any debris/grit out of the bearings and coat the bearings with grease to keep them from rusting due to moisture and condensation that can form when the saw is not in use. The STIHL bars use a shielded bearing utilizing a thin metal plate on each side of the bearing to encase the bearing rollers. The metal shields keep much of the dirt out but allows oil to migrate to the bearings thus no need for greasing. The most common brand of bar tip grease guns from Germany are from the Hallbauer company.

Fraxinus

Years ago when I worked in the woods (the 1970s) I would grease the tip daily.  Now, I never grease mine and have been advised not to by people who should know.
Grandchildren, Bluegrass music, old tractors, trees and sawmills.  It don't get no better'n that!

Striker

 I have yet to wear out the bearings in the bar tips. I don't grease the tips. Moisture in the bearings hasn't been an issue either because some of the saws may set for a week at a time between uses and they don't get greased before they set. 
Not saying don't grease them, just saying it might not be needed.

Jeff

sigidi

Righto then this is intersting,

I was greasing my sprocket when I first got my saw, went through all the grease in the little 'gun' I refilled it and wouldn't ya know, I lost it under an excavator track just after filling it up!!! ::)

So haven't greased since.

Now my understanding of things mechanical is moving parts should have assisstance to move? Now my 372 has a little hole to grease, why whould I be greasing or not greasing? Some folkes here have mentioned used ot grease, no don't grease why? What's the rationale behind it?

Hey look I'm happy to keep going the way I am but, no-one has really come out and said why they have been advised not to grease?
Always willing to help - Allan

davefrommd

I bought about 5 of those made in germany grease thingy's. Two of them didn't work as it looked like there was an air pocket near the tip inside sucking air instead of grease. They do work real good once you buy one that works. I would return your defect and get another one. Test it out before you leave either the store or store parking lot. Look for one that has 100% grease at the top of the cartridge inside where it pumps.  I usually grease my bar every time I gas up.  dave

scottr

Sigidi , several on another website have said that the reason for not greasing the sprocket tip is because the grease attracts dirt . In 16 years I have never greased my sprocket tips but I do use a couple drops of bar oil to lube the sprocket tip . I cut about 2 cords of hardwood firewood per year along with several sawlogs and storm clean up . Scott

jokers

Scott,

As you know, I`m a proponent of greasing the tips although certain bars, namely Stihl, do not allow this. I don`t buy into the argument that greasing tips attracts dirt. At the speed bar tips turn, centrifugal force throws most everything outward from the hub of the tip, including the bar oil that Stihl claims lubes their tips. Consequently I feel that it is a good idea to grease daily.

I do agree that most tips fail from damage from pinching or prying but I have had several tips on Stihl laminated bars and one on a brand new Windsor Mini Pro seize up with no apparent fouling from dirt or anything else.

I`ll continue to grease mine where possible.

Russ

scottr

Russ , twice in my rookie year I had a sprocket tip clog with so much grit that I had to flush it out with gas/oil mix to free it up . Thats when I started using the bar oil to lube the spocket tip . When I  lower the rakers and flip the bar (about every 3 sharpenings ) is when I oil the sprocket . Sometime there's grit in the sprocket oil hole that needs to be removed before oiling .                                                       Your saws rev higher than mine maybe causing problems , 13,500 rpm is my highest rpm saw .            I've mentioned it before and I'll mention it again , it would be interesting to open your failed bar and see what happened .                                                                                                                                Scott

jokers

Hi Scott,

I`ve had debris of some sort in the grease holes on a regular basis but have no indication that it`s entering the tip through that orifice. Of course I always remove the debris from the hole prior to greasing, but I do believe that greasing is pretty good for pushing crud out of the tip if you rotate the sprocket after each pump of the gun. How did you get so much grit in your bar tip? I can guess. :D

I do vaguely remember you suggesting that I should disect one of those siezed bars, maybe I`ll get to it soon. I looked at the Mini Pro today and it`s tip is locked solid with no visible debris. Pretty disappointing.

Russ

scottr

Russ , probably the combination of 3/8" low profile chain , punky chinaberry , and rookie sharpening probably caused the tip to lock up .                                                                                                          Have you thought about why the grit sticks in the the oil hole ? Certainly you've seen dirt stuck where grease or oil has been on a mower or tractor . Maybe another way to think about the grit is to say that the grease does not attract grit but what grit that does come in contact with the grease has a better chance of sticking . Then take the bar and plunge cut or make a full bar cut , I can imagine that it's possible to push some of the grit that is stuck in the oil hole into the roller bearing area .               Were you doing a lot of plunge cutting or full bar cutting with the bar that locked up ?                      Scott

jokers

Quote from: scottr on June 24, 2005, 08:44:40 AM
Russ ,         

Have you thought about why the grit sticks in the the oil hole ?
   

Geez Scott, it`s beginning to sound like a little condescension here.


Quote from: scottrCertainly you've seen dirt stuck where grease or oil has been on a mower or tractor. Maybe another way to think about the grit is to say that the grease does not attract grit but what grit that does come in contact with the grease has a better chance of sticking .

So true Scott, also true of oily surfaces, especially high viscosity oils like bar oil.

What is also true in your stated scenario is that the greasy/oily surface is not a friction surface so a large amount of buildup can occur un-impeded.

In a tip/sprocket scenario, the constant rotation of the nose causes endless sweeping of the mating surfaces, and just like anywhere else where there is a pressure differential as is caused by the motion of the tip sprocket against the grit, the fluid which in this case is grit and some sort of lubricant, flows toward an area of lower pressure.

Most of my cutting is not plunging or bar buried so I would expect one low pressure area to be the grease hole which is effectively vented to atmosphere when the tip is exposed and the sprocket is rotating. This belief is based on the assumption that the crud is fluidized and that there is a flow restriction caused by the mating surfaces within the tip, as you might find in a new/newer tip. Once a tip is sufficiently worn in, all bets are off, but all of my failures have been on new or nearly new bars.

I have not forgotten that some grit could be introduced via capillary action, which incidentally would be greater with a more fluid medium to travel in, or that some grit could simply be swept inward, especially in the case of bore cutting. Since I`ve only had this type of failure on small saw bars which are rarely used for boring and I only added oil after the tips started binding, I don`t consider this to be the case.

It also seems apparent that the amount of grit introduced through the grease hole would be miniscule compared to the amount dragged in by the sprocket teeth and chain drivers although some of that grit will also be centrifugally expelled, especially when sufficient oil or grease is present to wet the chain and outer tip sprocket.

It`s my bet that the majority of oil that you apply to the tip is gone after about ten full speed revolutions of the tip where I could reasonably, I believe, expect the outwardly moving grease to be present much longer.

My theories expressed here are based on a healthy dose of spud farmer logic. Please feel free to enlighten me where deemed appropriate.

Russ





scottr

Russ , I think of a centrifugal force moving the oil or grease to the outside race or sprocket not a differential of pressure . I also think that the oil hole is large compared to the thin tolerance between the sprocket and the bar .                                                                                                                        I believe that the grease in the oil hole would hold more grit than would an oiled hole and the less grit that could possibly be pushed into the roller bearings the better . I've also used 30 weight motor oil to lube the sprocket tip rollers and have had no problems .                                                                         Scott

rebocardo

When my nose started to seize I found it was from sawdust that packed around the bearing AND I had squeezed the tip a tad. So, I opened up the nose a lot and by rotating the sprocket and using a paperclip and spray I was able to free up the packed dust around the bearing until it spun freely. Then I closed the nose up.

What I do now is flush the grease out, while rotating the sprocket, then wipe the mess up that comes out, which includes sawdust. When I cut dirty gritty stuff I dribble oil unto the sprocket and chain, let it sit a minute before starting the cut.

One thing I think made a big difference is someone suggested opening up the oiler holes on the bar. I did that and I think it really made a difference in oiling the bar better, which may help the sprocket too.

I have not had it seize since opening the oil holes and flushing it with grease. I do a lot of ripping (and saw milling) with my saws and this seems to work with me.

re:Stihl
The manual on my MS180 says it basically has a sealed bearing so there is no sense in greasing or oiling it, hence no hole.

I could probably get away without greasing it, but, greasing it helps drive out the saw dust so I think it makes the sprocket last longer without getting sloppy.

Ron Scott

Has anyone used a solid bar (no roller end) without greasing? I've had them heat up quick with no grease. If the bar has a grease hole, I usually grease with every gas fill or chain sharpening.
~Ron

Tom

Ron,

I use a solid tip.  Never have put any grease on it. :)

I  have yet to actually wear out a solid tip.  The one I took off is getting close, but it has nothing to do with the tip.  The rails are getting thin.  I only took it off because I had access to this better one that was discarded by the county.  I still haven't figured out why they threw it away.

If you don't know what you are getting into, a  solid nose is sure a good way to go.  I buck and limb a lot of dirty stuff and buck a lot of small stuff.  The chances of getting dirt into a roller tip are pretty good.

This bar also gets a lot of abuse from splitting large logs.  I've not been plagued with them lately, but in the past years have split my share.

I'll not say that these bars don't get worn.  I do dress them back square again though. 

I like solid nosed bars.   'course I would use a bow for all this small bucking if I  had one.  Dreaming again.  :)

Ron Scott

Tom,

What make and size saw are you using? Yes, the solid bars are good for cutting firewood and when you get in "the dirt".

They just don't run cool on my 372 Husky. Dealer said to use a roller bar only.  :P
~Ron

Tom

my saw is a Husky 61 and it has had a hard-nose on it since new, back in 1993.   I've never noticed it running exceptionally hot.   It gets hot but it is usually when I stick the bar full depth in a 5' red oak and  rip its length.

I've had roller tips before.  Over the years, I've owned "pro" poulens, macs and sears(various manufacturers) Usually it was the tip wearing out that caused me to scrap the bar.

When I "moved up"  :D  to the Huskey, it was recommended that I use a hard nose.  I did and have sawn worry free ever since.  I've not noticed heat because of it, loss of power or stretched chains.  The sprockets have lasted as long as any sprocket I've ever used and I've never had any clutch problems.   I keep a sharp chain and it cuts like hot knife in butter.

Actually the only heat I feel is when the exhaust is crowded against the log.  Man!  That gets hot on my hand.   I have run the bar oil out before and the bar got hot, but, I think any of them would  without a lubricant.

Medina

Worked for a farmer (a very wise fella, those farmers know a lot) working my way through school, he always said that if it had a grease fitting, it was meant to be greased. However, he also always stated that grease was very much like money "Not enough and you are going to have problems, too much and it's very easy to have all kinds of messes."

Also worked at a mining facility where we trained on preventitive maintanance greasing continusouly run and high speed bearings where the instructor mentioned that same idea as above. More noticably in bearings with seals, too much grease can also be just as damaging as not enough.

I grease my roller tip 2 pumps in the morning before I start, have never had a problem with wear out or build up of grit.

Frickman

I run Stihl products exclusively and have not greased a sprocket tip for years, ever since Stihl switched over to low-maintenance tips. I wear out the bar rails or bend the bar before I wear out the nose.
If you're not broke down once in a while, you're not working hard enough

I'm not a hillbilly. I'm an "Appalachian American"

Retired  Conventional hand-felling logging operation with cable skidder and forwarder, Frick 01 handset sawmill

Pretend farmer when I have the time

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