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Figured wood and tree rustling

Started by populus, May 31, 2005, 11:44:00 AM

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populus

There is an epidemic of tree rustling in the Pacific Northwest because prices for figured wood are high. More at Tree Trends. Rustling creates unfair competition for ethical loggers and sawyers. My question is - what does the wood using community do about this?  How do buyers of figured wood, tone wood and other high-value woods avoid buying stolen wood? 

Ron Wenrich

Who says they care?  You could go to certification, but the industry buyers and sellers have turned their noses up at any idea of certifying wood.  They don't want to verify that the woodlot the trees come from were managed in a sustainable manner, I doubt they would care if the wood is stolen.

Mills know which loggers to trust.  As long as they aren't getting dragged into a lawsuit, most really don't care.
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

flip

If you go to a certification system there will be an obvious sur charge for the effort to do background check on the wood.  I don't know anyone that cares if the wood is certified or not just as long as the price, quantity and quality are there.  There are tons of shady people that will lie and steal for their own benefit all we can do is call their hand on it. 

If a there are a bunch of thieves runing around selling "hot" timber the only thing that can be done, IF, they are caught red handed is prosecution.  Most will be back doing the same thing within a few days.  I think land owners need to be diligent about checking their property and adjacent property for signs of cutting.  The best deterrent is vigilance and tougher fines for these slime balls.  The last thing needed is another organization getting a cut of the timber business.  Just my meager opinion.
Timberking B-20, Hydraulics make me board quick

Gilman

DanG, the article didn't give me any pointers on how to effectively rustle...

The article says the new WA law will take effect in July.  I guess I'd better look into it.  Oddly enough, I have a potential customer from the Portland area stopping by to purchase some maple burl turning blanks.

Interstate trasportation of stolen articles = Meeting your local FBI agents.
WM LT70, WM 40 Super, WM  '89 40HD
Cat throwing champion 1996, 1997, 1999. (retired)

Buzz-sawyer

If I was a buyer, I would do what the good ones already do .......avoid dealing with people with shiftless or poor character.........thats about ALL that can be done.
    HEAR THAT BLADE SING!

Gilman

Here's the Bill if you want to read it.

Oops too big, I sent it to Jeff and asked him to upload it.
WM LT70, WM 40 Super, WM  '89 40HD
Cat throwing champion 1996, 1997, 1999. (retired)

Jeff

Frank and I know of people using the internet that try to buy figured wood in, particular, one from the east coast from people on the west coast and then use every excuse in the book to never pay for it. Isn't that pretty much the same?  I refuse to let even suspected wood rustlers use this forum for such things. >:(
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Jeff

Should not have been a problem Gilman, I'll try it from this end...

Its there, link is below
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

flip

If and when these "board bandits" are caught how are they prosecuted?  Theft, tresspass, vandalism, is there any restitution to the injured parties?  I see many ways and loop holes to get out of jail time or large fines >:(  I say shoot on site ;D.

Here is the other side.  What if I go out and harvest in a guys woods (that does not have clear boundaries eg. survey stakes) and I mistakenly take a few trees on the line that a neighbor claims as his?  I know it's devils advocate but I know it's happened before.  Kinda like setting up a tree stand on someone elses land, is it tresspass and poaching or just a plain 'ole mistake?

Kind of a grey area and dang near impossible to regulate without a mountain of paper work and red tape. 

Think of the implications, you go out to your buddies to take a couple logs, no paper work, no permits.  If a law like this goes into effect you could get arrested or fined for not filing the correct papers or have permission to take logs, YUCK ::) :o  Or am I reading too much into this? :P
Timberking B-20, Hydraulics make me board quick

Gilman

The law doesn't say what the fine range would be, but it does give the police the right to detain vehicles, trailers, and harvesting equipment.
WM LT70, WM 40 Super, WM  '89 40HD
Cat throwing champion 1996, 1997, 1999. (retired)

Ron Wenrich

When you go out and cut trees, you better DanG well know where the lines are at.  It isn't the responsibility of the adjoining landowner to let you know where his lines are.  Its up to you, the guy doing the cutting.

Penalties for simple mistakes can be anywhere from single to triple stumpage.  Penalties for blatant theft can result in jail time.

For stumpage, a mill wouldn't be held responsible for buying theft logs.  They usually get named in the suite, but the logger is the guy who is usually responsible.  For marked timber, the forester should be responsible for marking over the line.  Some marked sales have timber theft.

But, that isn't the same as buying figured lumber.  There are a lot of middlemen involved and you are further away from the stump.  The chain of ownership gets harder to follow.

Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

BW_Williams

Thanks for the link, Jeff, I hadn't heard a thing about this law.  I believe I would fall into exemptions in Sec 10 in my ventures, but will check to see that my hobby doesn't turn me outlaw.  Of course, we're still not sure Gregoire's our Gov anyway :D  BWW
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Mayor of Millerdale, Washington, USA (by God)!

Frank_Pender

Yep, Jeff, and he has not yet paid his dues. :( >:(  I wonder, could one get the Federal Trade Commission involved since this happens on an interstate internet system?  Just a thought.   In Southern Oregon there is a real problem with people stealing Madrona burl from private as well as public lands.   You know how you get rid of Coyotes?  You hand a few on the fence and the others tend to stay at bay. :D :D :D
Frank Pender

Curlywoods

As a purchaser of figured woods and burls I try to travel to visit suppliers when possible so that I can meet them and get an idea about their operations.  My intent is not to judge the business by the size of its operation, more to meet the person(s) that I am considering doing business with and to get a first hand look at their typical products.  What I deem high quality and someone else is often at odds  ;D
  I buy burls mostly from two brothers in Oregon and they are real princes.  Hard working and honest guys.  They had a visit one day from the local Sherriff.  It seems that the sherriff had finally catch a burl rustler that he had been tracking for over 20 years!  He knew the guy was stealing them from BLM land, but never was able to catch him in the act.  He was asking them what the approx. value of the burls might be as part of the case that they were going to make against the crook.
  I don't know where all of my suppliers get their logs, but I trust them and I believe that they are honest folks from all indications that I can see.  Crooks are usually (I said usually) very apparent to me.  They just have a way about them that makes me uneasy.  I got fooled once, but not too often, by the Grace of God  :)
All the best,

Michael Mastin
McKinney Hardwood Lumber
McKinney, TX

iain

There is a bit of theft here, but this country aint realy big enough



Curly    i like the maker gallery on your site, what a stomping advert for the quality of your wood 8)



   iain

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