Sycamore

[oakiemac]

I just obtained 3 nice sycamore logs. They are 8' and about 24+". I was happy to get them since I need some more quater sawn syc.
Well when I sawed them there was very little to no ray fleck. The other syc logs that I have sawn in the past all showed good fleck but these logs had none even on the perfectly qs boards.
Things that I noticed about the logs. The heart wood was very little, mostly sapwood. The tree grew up in a mucky/wet area and when we took it down water poured from each cut.
Anyone else have this problem with sycamore? I haven't cut a lot of sycamore but what I have sawed showed at least some fleck-on these logs nothing.

[beenthere]

I would think it would be hard to be a sycamore, and not possess the rays in the wood. I don't think, or can't imagine a sycamore getting a choice in the matter. Maybe you have a 'throwback' or a mutation of some kind?

[Ironwood]

Thanks for posting this. I want some with character as welll and we'll be selective now as to where they come from. Perhaps the swamp haas somethiing to do with it. Maybe check withthe foresters crew in the other forum.
  REID :P

[Jeff]

Just a little interjection here. :D  This is all the Forestry Forum, and most of the foresters read this category as well as the others.

At least In our area, almost ALL of the naturally occuring Sycamore is found in the river bottoms and flood plains or low, very moist mucky areas. (I took chet to our "old farm" just a week ago and showed him his first Sycamores, found in those very conditions) Sycamore that you find outside of those areas are generally specimen trees that were planted.

[VA-Sawyer]

Maybe they were Syca-less trees.  ;D

[Tom]

...........Moan..........   :D

[ARKANSAWYER]

  Some times the rays do not run across the grain like they should.  You have to learn to read the grain for the rays and forget about sawing 90 degrees to the grain.   I had a photo one time that showed this but think it got lost in the switch over.
  Let it spalt and you will not worry about rays any more.

[shopteacher]

Hey, did ya get that kiln up and running from ebay?  Last time I tell someome about something then decide to bid on it myself. :D

[oakiemac]

Were you bidding on it? Your probably the one that drove the price way up in the last minute. Heck if i'd know that you were bidding on it I would of let you have. I still haven't got it  setup yet-too many things in the frying pan, but it is next on the list.

Arkansawyer-would it help to make it spalt by submerging in a pond?

[Ironwood]

Oakiemack

  I believe you need oxygen and heat and moisture, to get the spault to occur.


                             :PReid

[Rockn H]

To make it spalt I think you need to treat it like a mushroom. :

[ARKANSAWYER]

  Putting it in a pond will keep it freash.  Storing logs in water for a spell stops alot of checking and rotting.   Thats why FDH dives with gators to get logs that have been under water for 100's years.
  I store mine off the ground and in the woods for a year or two and take my chances.  The logs felled in the spring and early fall spalt the best.  Fall logs take longer.

[oakiemac]

Thanks ARky, I think I will put them in the woods and see if I can get some spalting going on. 

[leggs]

Does anyone know what sycamore is good for.

[Randy]

Leggs-------------click on "Search" above and type in sycamore---------You will find alot on this subject. Randy

[rbarshaw]

Just send it over to me and as soon as I cut it up I'll see what it can be used for and i'll let you know :D :D :D

[W]

Sycamore is great Q-sawn.  It has fantastic figure and flame, mostly the butt logs.  If it has a wide dark heart the figuring really shows up.  It is more subtle in the whiter wood, but still present.  I have some air drying now and six more logs to saw.

[W]

I sawed some syc and thought the same thing, where's the figuring?  I sawed it anyway and stickered it in a stack.  Next day I looked at it closely and noticed that it was figured, but since it was sap wood, difficult to see.  I think it will take a stain and look fine when it is finished.

[shopteacher]

To make it spalt I think you need to treat it like a mushroom. 

   Does that mean putting a lot of steak around it?

Oaky, I had a set bid on it so whoever was willing to go over it was more than welcome.  That's how I bid on most things on there, set the bid and forget it.  It you loose out, hey that's how it goes, if you wins that's all the better.  Glad you got it and hope it performs good for ya.

[pigman]

   Does that mean putting a lot of steak around it?

Must be about meal time for Teach and Ole Butch. ;D

[Rockn H]

 Does that mean putting a lot of steak around it?

Well, if I cut anything spalted it's because I let it set too long and I'm just lucky there's anything left to saw. ;D I have read that some keep it covered (in the dark), cover it with manure, cover it with sawdust, soak it with beer, or just put it in the woods.  Anything that will start the decay fungi.  When I think about trying to make wood spalt on purpose, the things to try always make me think of growing mushrooms.  Keep it in the dark and feed it ....well, manure. :

[oakiemac]

Well these sycamore logs that didn't show any fleck were left in the woods for about 5 months and then recently I decided to saw em up. They then showed good fleck when quarter sawn and had a small amount of spalting. 8) Complete opposite of a few months ago.

I remember when I first tried to saw them they were green as you can get. They had just been felled the day before and while sawing water was gushing like blood from each cut. I think Sycamore has to be left for a while before you saw it if you want good ray fleck. The amount of time I'm not sure but little geyesers of water is not a good thing.
Just thought I would pass this info on.

[Ironwood]

Oakiemac,

  The ray fleck should be structural, meaning that it would not be there after sitting if it wasn't there to begin with. Perhaps someone else with more "science" behind them will chime in, I don't think sitting had anything to do with creating the fleck. Perhaps it just accentuated it more.


                Reid

[oakiemac]

Reid,

I agree, it was there all along but I just couldn't see it. Letting it sit for awhile just brought out the nice ray fleck. It wasn't created by sitting just became visible.
An old guy that runs a pallet making company near me told me a while back that some times he really sees the ray fleck in Sycamore and some times he don't. I didn't really believe him until I had this same problem. I now suspect that it is much easyier to see the fleck in logs that have been down for a while versus fresh cut logs.

[ARKANSAWYER]

  The fleck is always there and does not improve with drying the log.  But very green sickymore is very wet and it does not show up very well.  Sickymore does saw better if allowed to sit in log form and dry some even if it does not spalt.  In the winter months I like to let it lay green before I saw it up for QS lumber but no spalt..  In the summer it will start to spalt in a few weeks but not get heavy for many months.  If it is not rotten soft it saws well after 18 months.

[Qweaver]

I have several sycamores that I plan to cut but they are not high on my list of things to do.   Is it better to cut them during the winter when the sap is down?
Quinton

[ARKANSAWYER]

  Sap is never really down.   Trees are just as wet year round but sugar content may change a bit.

[TexasTimbers]

So if I am to understand, if I cut one in winter, the chances of it spalting are less than if I wait until spring and especially summer? Although I do understand there are no guarantees, what about cutting it in April/May, sealing ends, putting under shade tree with mister, and opening in 18 months?

[Tom]

I don' t think anyone has discovered a sure fired way of producing spalt.  Some bury it in a compost pile, some throw manure all over it.  Some inject it by stacking other pieces of white-fungus-infected wood around it.

I would think that sprinkling it might inhibit fungus growth.  The window is so small for the fungus to grow that you might keep it too wet.  We sprinkle pine to keep the stain down and bugs away.

I've seen spalt develop in the sun as well as the shade.

[DanG]

I whacked up a sycamore log last week, and this is what I found.  About 2½ feet at the butt end was spalted and stained...kinda pretty, I think.





The rest of the log was fresh and pink.  The log was 13' long, so I can still get some 8' "fresh" boards, and some spalted shorts.

[SwampDonkey]

So if I am to understand, if I cut one in winter, the chances of it spalting are less than if I wait until spring and especially summer? Although I do understand there are no guarantees, what about cutting it in April/May, sealing ends, putting under shade tree with mister, and opening in 18 months?

I think what Arky was getting at was that wood cut in the winter won't spalt because the conditions aren't right for the fungus. Cut it in the winter and let it lay until late spring and it will have as good a chance to spalt as a log cut down in May and left a few weeks.

[ohsoloco]

DanG, that's what happened to me when I milled up a maple a few months ago.  It was a 6' soft maple around 30" diameter that was dropped in the spring.  I didn't have time to get around to it for a while, and when I cut a few inches off of the end I was going to mill from I saw it was completely spalted.  Unfortunately when I milled it up I discovered only about a foot on each end was actually spalted.  If I knew that I would've waited longer to cut it....but there's a fine line between spalted and rotten  :-\

[TexasTimbers]

SD it sounds like when in doubt cut 'er down then. Any excuse to take it down sounds good I have been wanting to for a couple of months. think I'll do as Tom puts it and roll the dice and let it sit around for a while. i did this with a mulberry last year and it turned out magnificent.

[ARKANSAWYER]

  Drop the tree in May on the dark of the moon and "DO NOT" seal the ends.  Skin the bark off in several places up the side and buck to length plus a few extra inches.  Park it in the shade with some leaves around laying on the ground.  Saw come November or wait till the next year.

[dad2nine]

DanG, whatcha gonna do with those 4/4 spalted shorts?

[beenthere]

How did DanG get spalted shorts?   ??? 8) ;D ;D

[Furby]

We DON'T wanna know!

[Tom]

His wife has been out of town and he's been staying close to the barn next to the beerigerator.  No washing machine in there. :D

[dad2nine]

  ;D

[Fla._Deadheader]

Sounds like he's been sittin in a leaf pile with his beer.  : :

[TexasTimbers]

Thanks Arky. I have some ends to cut off today then. We sealed them once we got back to the yard. Here's a little load the wife and I harvested yesterday after church. Actually we didn't even get started 'til about 3:00. No, that is not the wife in the picture . . . . :D

We only took two small trees. the biggest one was 22" DBH - does this heart seem too small? Does Syc have small heartwood like this? I hope someone doesn't tell me these sycamores are sick - a - mores. Those hearts look too small.

[TexasTimbers]

Drop the tree in May on the dark of the moon and "DO NOT" seal the ends. Skin the bark off in several places up the side and buck to length plus a few extra inches. Park it in the shade with some leaves around laying on the ground. Saw come November or wait till the next year.

Not trying to beat this thing to death but I am really green about this so bear with me. Since I have already dropped them, not in May on the dark of the moon but in the sawing month of Novemebr, would you go ahead and saw them up or let 'em lie for a year and see what happens?

I think I will go ahead and saw a few because I just have to; that unseen driving force that makes me want to see what is inside - but do you think letting the rest lay around is a bad idea?

[ARKANSAWYER]

  If they lay over the winter they just dry out and the spalt does not often get a good start.  Letting them lay a bit in the winter seems to let the wood dry better with out as much twist.  Small heart wood is a good thing as it does not spalt well any way.  When you saw green do not stack right a way.   Lean it up agin a building so that only the bottom touches the ground and the top where they lean.   They will dry some like this before you sticker them and it cuts down on stain.

[TexasTimbers]

Thanks Arky.... very helpful info I would have had to learn the hard way.