Pasture Trees?

[Kirk_Allen]

I was told by a neigbor today that a logger told him the trees in an old pasture are no good and would be worth far less than others because the cattle dung makes them go bad on the inside.

Now I looked at these trees (30"+ R & W Oak, Walnut, Maple, Hickory) and they dont look sick at all from being in a pasture.

Can anyone give me some insight on such a statement?

Thanks

[Buzz-sawyer]

dung makes them go bad on the inside.........the loggers ????

Seriously....the only trouble that comes to mind is COMPACTION on the root system ;)
But what do I know......I thought we had some lulu's over here :D :D
(yall have lots of interesting logger stories) ;)

[Ianab]

Also trees in a pasture are more likely to be 'edge of forest' or open grown. More likely to have branches or knots in the log, lower quality etc. Not to say every pasture tree is junk, just likely to be lower quality.

Ian

[Jeff]

COWS IN THE WOODS
I think I may be able to find one more pictorial example of how quick cows can damage a woods.

PHOTO LINK

from another thread
COWS IN THE WOODS REVISITED

[Kirk_Allen]

The trees in question are the same trees a neiboring land owner showed me and told me the story of the pasture concerns.    After he told me about the pasture concerns for those great looking trees I said: "I am no forester but in the last few years I have learned one thing; I listent to what loggers say, take half of it and throw it away and take the other half and investrigate it to find half the truth!  My suggestion, call the State Forester."

Now before the GOOD LOGGERS eat my lunch, please understand my comments are being directed towards a couple of bad apples that are making the good guys look bad.  My goal is to educate as many landowners in my area as possible.

Anyway, the trees in this "Pasture" are HUGE and at least 50-75' straight up before they branch out.  This "Pasture" buts up to another woodlot with HUGE trees as well and it turns out this land was "pasture" land MANY years ago and no longer has ANY cattle on it.

The logger claims they aren't worth as much since they are in an old pasture area. 

I think I understand the "active pasture" concerns but it looks like this particular logger is trying to pull one over on the landowner AGAIN.  These trees apear to be healthy and I would guess there has not been any cattle in this woodlot for 20 years or so. 

[Tobacco Plug]

Veneer log buyers don't want pasture logs due to mineral stains.  Livestock compact the soil and cut the roots which allows such stain.  Otherwise, I don't see any problem, without looking at the trees in person.

[Texas Ranger]

One more lie by a thief.  Same old story, that old horse ain't worth much, been rode hard.  That ol dog is worthless, look at that red tongue.  That old car is smoking, I'll take it off your hands.

Get a forester that works for the state or for you.  Here in Texas the old story is you got pine beetles, got to cut that timber, and it ain't worth much with them there beetles in it.

That sad news is some folks buy this malarkey.

[populus]

I agree with Tobacco Plug, though I don't chaw myself. We have milled some pasture trees (lots of horse farms around here) and get some of the best grade lumber out of them.  I haven't seen much mineral stain. That said, most horse farms operate at much lower stock/acre than cattle farms and they often fence out their trees. Still, I see no reason to undervalue these trees.

[Buzz-sawyer]

There is a differece between trees in a pasture and pasturing cattle in the trees, namely the proximity the cattle have to the trees and frequency of thier encounters with the trees.
So trees that stand in open pasture stand a far better chance to avoid damage than those with 50 cows fenced up in them...........really putting the hurts on thier roots.
In defence of the logger, cattle certainly CAN damage trees, but the whole rotten on the inside due to manure story stinks...either ignorant of facts...or just spreadin it thick :D

[Doc]

To take a line from a movie I recently watched.....That man (logger) is so full of manure you could bury him in the ground and grow another'n just like'm!

Doc

[Tobacco Plug]

Still, I see no reason to undervalue these trees.

Absolutely.  I was just saying that you would have more trouble getting a veneer buyer to consider these logs.  And of course I am speaking only of the hardwood. 

My source on this was our county forest ranger.  If I studied that in school, I have forgotten it, or was asleep that day!

[SwampDonkey]

I've seen pastured horses eat the outter bark off sugar maple trees and left the cambium in tact. The trees recovered and you'd never know their outter bark was once eaten. I mean the bark was removed from ground level up to 5 or 6 feet. I thought for sure those trees were doomed when they first ate the bark off. The pasture was tiny and I don't think the horses were well fed.  :-\

I agree with everyone that the cattle will compact and damage the roots of trees. They also rub the trees injuring the bark. Spruce growing in pastures are usually termed 'cow shade' or 'pasture spruce' and have a high incidence of butt rott and they are very limby. I've seen truckloads of this wood rejected by the mill, and it has to be hauled back home or to the woodlot to be rid of it. Can't even get the bark off that stuff to chip it. With pasture spruce , the tell tail signs of butt rot ca be seen from the bark. If it's scaly with silver dollar-sized flakes it's gone bad. If the bark is tight and not as described it's generally a good one. Not to mention some of those trees are probably full of wire, as anyone on here that has a mill, have encountered from time to time. Most of our hardwood species when open grown on pastures are limby and the limbs will start above the browse line. But, mature trees that may have been left when pasture land was cleared may not have epicormic branches and can contain decent wood. American Elm is a species that self prunes in the open and will often have some nice wood for instance. I never see pasture elms with limbs to the ground.  Bottom line is that there will be good and bad, but I wouldn't call to many trees useless unless its mostly dead with alot of rot.

Ok, I've rambled enough for this thread ;)

[Bro. Noble]

We have quite a bit of pasture land that we are trying to get into shape that we can hay it.  We have cut a lot of hardwoods,  sawed the logs,  and then grind the stumps.  I can't say that there is much difference in quality from those trees and the ones in the timberland.  There were several walnuts in this pastureland and we cut them at the same time we were selling some veneer walnuts.  I thought we had just as well have the buyer look at these logs also.  I was surprised that he bought a good percentage of them,  even some that had lightening damage.  I had always heard that that prevented them from being veneer grade.  None of these brought the top prices,  but they brought way more than I could get for them sawing them and selling the lumber.

[Ron Scott]

Pasture trees will usually be of lower grade and be of lesser value, but useable.

Consideration needs to be made on how long they have been in the pasture with excessive root compaction, "rubbed on", how hard they are  to harvest due to location in the pasture, obstacles such as gates, fencing, etc to deal with. The trees are often scattered.

[Phorester]

The logger who said it's the manure is looking at the wrong cause.   

Tobacco Plug is right.  It's the mineral stain from decades of root injuries from grazing and probably slicing them with the bushhog if the pastures are clipped, that make pasture trees worth less.  Note, I said worth less, not worthless.

[Fla._Deadheader]

As lumber, they should be fine. As farwood, or stave bolts, them puppies will be TOUGH to split. Don't ask how I know this.  : : ;D ;D

[Kirk_Allen]

Thanks for all the great input!  The FF comes through again 8)

[Rockn H]

That man  is so full of manure you could bury him in the ground and grow another'n just like'm!

Doc

Oh that cracked me up, can I use that one? :D :D :D

[AtLast]

Just remember Forest Gump...BUT insted think....logs are like cholocate...ya never know whats inside...I dont care  where they came from...

[oldschoolmiller]

I say if the trees look good outside, and there is no visible signs of decay or damage which has been grown over, then they should be just fine.

Mineral tends to have more to do with what is in the soil, rather then root damage. I could be wrong though, it wouldn;t be the first time  :

If I had to guess the guy was probably drooling while he swilled that load of hooey, dreaming of all the money he could make  :D

[BBK]

There is a lot of reforested woodland in Southern Md that had been open to cattle and other livestock over the several  generations. Starting back when I was a kid I've seen everything from rotten centers, mineral stain, root damage to #1 clear and  veneer come from these trees.
There seemed no ryme or reason why one tree was bad and 60' away the next one could make the mortgage payment. My dad always said if the tree looked heathy and had no signs of damage the chances were good there was money in it.