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Started by Dan_Shade, May 22, 2005, 09:10:47 PM

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Dan_Shade

picked me up an anvil and a bunch of old chains and a broken vise, didn't know it was broken at the time, the "nut" part is broke, not sure if that's fixable or not, I know a few good machinists, hopefully they can help me out.






i talked myself into paying too much for it, shoulda done a little digging around, I bought my dad a similar sized anvil a few years ago on E-bay, but I can't remember what I paid for it  :-\

I paid $300 for the works here, probably should have only gone $200, but it was a friend, and the junk was his grandfathers, so oh well....  the anvil is a little worn, seems to have a ring, but gets a little dead towards the end and doesn't have as much "bounce" back there.  It'll suffice for now, sure beats using a concrete block, and I'm not into blacksmithing yet, that'll be soon, though.

got 3 chains with 2 hooks, one binder, 3 or 4 chains with one or no hooks on them, the pulley/lifter thingy, and a big ring with two big chains and hooks on it, looks like it was made for lifting rigging stuff.

Have any of you guys ever patched a buggered up anvil sucessfully?  I've heard of them being recapped, but I've never seen it done.  Too bad most were melted down for the war, but I guess we needed the steel ....
Woodmizer LT40HDG25 / Stihl 066 alaskan
lots of dull bands and chains

There's a fine line between turning firewood into beautiful things and beautiful things into firewood.

J_T

Didn't know a anxil had to be tuned ??? I do know a few guys that can knock the horn off one with a rubber hammer though :D :D Great bunch of goodies  8)
Jim Holloway

Dan_Shade

anvils can be a bit tricky, I'm kinda ticked at myself, I got so excited when I saw it, I stopped thinking, hah!

Most old anvils will ring when struck with a hammer, if it doesn't ring, that means the weld between the base and the cap is broken.  However some good anvils were made of cast steel (I think I have this part right) and while they have good rebound (hammer bounces back when it is struck) they don't ring.  this type is much quieter to work around. 

Woodmizer LT40HDG25 / Stihl 066 alaskan
lots of dull bands and chains

There's a fine line between turning firewood into beautiful things and beautiful things into firewood.

etat

Most folks that know will tell you to leave and use the anvil as is.  If it is a true anvil of cast steel or wrought iron the value will be greatly diminished from working on it.  Using it even a little worn is something that can be easily gotten used to and you'll often actually find yourself using the worn parts or rounded corners often if you do very much smithing.  

'that said' I had a old 'cast iron' anvil that was my great uncles.  It was not a name brand, was wore badly, parts were chipped off, and had little value other than sentiment.  The absolute give away that it was cast was the numbers were cast 'raised up' and not stamped into the anvil, and there was no top plate.  Just a chunk of cast iron that looked like a anvil. It  was what many call an avs, (anvil shaped object) and I had nothing to loose by working on it.  I spent many many hours heating welding, and grinding on it and it's not worth one bit more now than it was before I started with the exception it is just a little bit more pleasing to look at.  To even begin work on it the WHOLE thing had to be heated to red hot before doing any welding.  As the top part was badly beaten up anyways in order to weld a steel top plate on it I cut enough back so I could fill underneath the plate completely with weld.  Just welding around the edges won't do at all. I used a piece of grader blade that I ground down to make the top plate.  Not many types of steel would be hard enough, even if you could successfully do it, two I can think of that comes to mind would be either a piece of grader blade, or a piece cut off of a fork lift fork.  There was a time a few years ago I studied this extensively.  I also built a new anvil completely from scratch using a round piece of 6 inch steel out of a hydraulic ram, a piece of forklift fork for the top base, and a piece of tractor axle for the horn.  To date I still have not heat treated the one I made.  To do so successfully, from what I learned, would require heating the whole thing, (it's very very heavy) to red hot, and then cooling with a blast of water at least as strong as would come form a fire hose pumping at full blast with a continuous stream on the face and horn of the anvil until cooled.  At the time I even suggest throwing it in a pond and dragging with a tractor of swinging with a forklift and was told that this absolutely would not accomplish the same thing.  

Most anvils that were originally made of wrought iron around the turn of the century had the top plate fused to the main body under pressure while the steel was being poured.  Most places that were making these anvils were close to a large stream or river and when cooling and treating they used tremendous amounts of water pressure.  While many of these have been welded on and repaired over the years it is almost always at a cost of hardness to the original plate, and always lowers the value.

From your picture that's a nice looking anvil.  Personally speaking, I'd learn to use it as is. As I said even a dip that has worn in the top over the years can come in very useful in forging and trying to straighten a piece of steel.  And welded up square corners will not hold up for very long.  
Old Age and Treachery will outperform Youth and Inexperence. The thing is, getting older is starting to be painful.

etat

Also there was one company, I can't remember which one, (I think it was fisher but not sure) that actually made their anvils out of cast iron instead of cast steel with a steel top plate.  I 'believe' their top plate completely covered the horn but I'm not sure.  These anvils would have had less ring to them too.
Old Age and Treachery will outperform Youth and Inexperence. The thing is, getting older is starting to be painful.

Dan_Shade

it was fisher, but I think they were cast steel, not cast iron...

I'm not going to fix this thing unless I have to :)

I"m pretty happy with it, my grandfather had a really big one, I told one of my uncles i wanted that one, but I was told to get in line :)

They still use it, so I'm not too upset, but I definately don't want to see it end up in a flower bed...  when I was a kid, I'd just get nails and stuff and beat them out on it!  then when we were all teenagers we'd see who could lift it up the highest. 

anvils are big collector items these days, makes it tough to find one to work with if you want to do blacksmithing stuff.

This one will certainly suit my needs fine, i'm a little more concerned with fixing the broken vise, that thing may be scrap, but it's an old pretty heavy vise, I'd hate to scrap it.
Woodmizer LT40HDG25 / Stihl 066 alaskan
lots of dull bands and chains

There's a fine line between turning firewood into beautiful things and beautiful things into firewood.

Dan_Shade

http://pages.friendlycity.net/~krucker/Anvil/fisher.htm

looks like it was cast iron.  I'll have to see if I can figure out what type this one is.  problem is time makes those stampings hard to read.
Woodmizer LT40HDG25 / Stihl 066 alaskan
lots of dull bands and chains

There's a fine line between turning firewood into beautiful things and beautiful things into firewood.

etat

Me thinks that if you wind up doing a lot of forging and beating on steel your ears will wind up thanking you that it 'doesn't' ring as loud.  And, the end result will acomplish the same thing. :)
Old Age and Treachery will outperform Youth and Inexperence. The thing is, getting older is starting to be painful.

Rockn H

I've seen some smaller anvils made from railroad tracks.  I've also seen anvils repaired with the straps you join track together with at switches.

Ironwood

Great lessons guys. Thanks, knew a little now I know a little more.  :P. I dabble a little with the iron and do some professionally, mostly weld cut grind but on a good day I get to forge. I freaquent scrappers and have noticed an increase in value and interest in Smithy stuff.  :P

                              REID
There is no scarcity of opportunity to make a living at what you love to do, there is only scarcity of resolve to make it happen.- Wayne Dyer

Dan_Shade

I've got an old "anvil" made from a railroad tie, there's really no comparison of using the two, but like I said earlier, they sure beat using a concrete block :)

Reid, what do you use for a forge?  I'm planning on building a forge that fires on acetalyne (sp?) out of a well casing or some other decent sized pipe.  my grandfather had a small coal forge, but with the cost and availability of coal these days, plus the mess, i'm just going to use readily available gas. 
Woodmizer LT40HDG25 / Stihl 066 alaskan
lots of dull bands and chains

There's a fine line between turning firewood into beautiful things and beautiful things into firewood.

etat

Here's a link that might be of some help in making a gas forge or gas  burner for a forge using propane.

http://anvilfire.com/FAQs/gas_forges.htm
Old Age and Treachery will outperform Youth and Inexperence. The thing is, getting older is starting to be painful.

Doc

How much does that anvil you have weigh?

Judging by the pics it is somewhat less than 120 lbs, which is fine for many uses, but places that as most likely having been a farriers anvil at one time.
If it still has some ring to it, and the top deck is not sway backed like a glue horse then I would go with CK and not repair anything on it. Old anvils bring a fair penny on the open market now, and repaired bring squat. The bigger the anvil the more it is worth.

If you absolutely feel the neeed to clean it up, try some rust reaper and rags first. If there is anything left on it that you want ot remove then take a fine wire brush in a drill and knock off the remainder of the garbage. See if you can find any markings at all on it. Anvilfire.com has a whole section devoted to anvil makers marks from about 2 centuries back. Take a look at that with the marks on yours and see what youc an find out about it. The history on the stuff gets pretty interesting.

I do love knifemaking, and smithing.

Doc

Dan_Shade

i havn't weighed it, i'll see if I can find my scale tonight (still haven't unpacked all that junk since my move).  from it's size, i'm thinking it's about 150 lbs.  it's heavy, Mike helped me get it in the truck, i got it out myself, opening my gate and setting it down were interesting  :)

Woodmizer LT40HDG25 / Stihl 066 alaskan
lots of dull bands and chains

There's a fine line between turning firewood into beautiful things and beautiful things into firewood.

Ironwood

I have coal forge and the plans for a gas fired one, I'll look up the text tonight. Sometimes if it is just a quickie, I use the torches. Reid
There is no scarcity of opportunity to make a living at what you love to do, there is only scarcity of resolve to make it happen.- Wayne Dyer

Buzz-sawyer

Dan
Why not use propane....cheaper,more available....... ???
    HEAR THAT BLADE SING!

SwampDonkey

Dan,

Dad had one that looked identical to your new one.  :)
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

rebocardo

Ck, thanks for all the info, I did not know that much went into an anvil.

etat

Nor did I.  When I first asked about restoring Pappy's anvil, it was a real bugger just even getting my hands on it,  I got jumped on REAL bad.  And when I discovered, with some help, that is was just a cast iron knock off, I was mostly told to retire it with honors and that it wouldn't ever be worth much. There for a while my feelings were hurt real bad.  Then  I figured it was busted up too bad to retire with honors.  There was like a two inch sway in the saddle of it, and parts of the cast were knocked plumb off.  It even when new was really a cheap one that was cast without a steel top plate and from a unknown company. However, I figured if it was good enough for pappy to use there HAD to be a way to fix it so at least it would LOOK honorable.. 

Pappy Kennedy, (my great uncle) was a blacksmith who lots of folks took their farm stuff to fix.  Plows and horseshoes and stuff like that.  Also he made quite a few knives.  I still remember his old forge, it was one of the bellows type made out of leather.  He never had much money so that old anvil was probably the best he could afford.

There was a couple of guys, that once I convinced them I knew a bit about steel, finally proceeded to tell me the best way to go about fixing it.  And they were right, it was hard and took a lot of time to do it right.  I figure that to everyone else in the world it was worth nothing and had no historical value, and never would have, especially the way it was wore out.

You know what, I think Pappy'd be proud of me for fixing the old thing. AND I still use it ocassionally.

With that said, if I ever did acquire a older name brand anvil from a known company and if it was usable as is and most are, then I'd leave it alone.  The price of them, untouched, is going through the roof among collectors. A repair, even properly done, can knock hundreds of dollars off of the price.
Old Age and Treachery will outperform Youth and Inexperence. The thing is, getting older is starting to be painful.

Dan_Shade

i went out and measured this one, it's 145lbs, 4.25" x 13.25" with an 8.25" horn (counting the smaller square part)

I think somebody already beat me to welding it, i shoulda looked at it better, I'd have still bought it, but wouldn't have paid as much.  Oh well, can't take it with me, and i've got a full belly so i figure I can recover :)


Woodmizer LT40HDG25 / Stihl 066 alaskan
lots of dull bands and chains

There's a fine line between turning firewood into beautiful things and beautiful things into firewood.

Dan_Shade

I read an old blacksmithing book when I was a kid, it was written in like 1890 or something, but I have no idea of the title :(

it had a lot of good info in it.  Metal working like that amazes me.

I remember reading once that when the oxy-acetalyne torch was invented, it made a 17 hour job of cutting a port hole in a chip into a half hour job....  pretty impressive.
Woodmizer LT40HDG25 / Stihl 066 alaskan
lots of dull bands and chains

There's a fine line between turning firewood into beautiful things and beautiful things into firewood.

Don_Papenburg

If your anvil has a good ring ... make a hook for one of your hammer s handle and hook the hammer into the pritcher hole and letit hang there as you work . muffles the sound quit well.
Frick saw mill  '58   820 John Deere power. Diamond T trucks

Ironwood

Don

  The whole reason I hit the anvil is to hear that beautiful ring!!!! ;D

                                 REID
There is no scarcity of opportunity to make a living at what you love to do, there is only scarcity of resolve to make it happen.- Wayne Dyer

Doc

The pupose of tapping it for the ring is to make sure the base isn't cracked. If the deck isn't sway-backed and it rings nice (some don't by design) then it is fine......touch nothing up on that anvil!

Take some good close up pics of that thing. I am curious to see what it is you found.

you can look at www.lindsaybks.com and find a whole host of blacksmithing books (reprints of old stuff). Lots of good info there on the old way of doing things decorative in iron. You will be amazed at what you can do with some of the stuff in your junk pile if you think about it a little.

Doc

Vermonter

I got my start with a book called Practical Projects for the Blacksmith.  Roy Underhill's books are still in print, and they have lots of good info as well: The Woodwright's Shop, the Woodwright's companion, etc.   #13 of the Foxfire series has some smithing stuff too, as well as coopering, which is another of my hobbies.
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