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think this will work

Started by Quartlow, May 18, 2005, 07:45:46 PM

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Quartlow

I've been trying to come up with a fairly econmical way to cool the shop, I have at my disposal a small apartment size chest freezer and a circulating pump from a hot water heating system, and a drum of used antifreeze. Thinking of pooring the antifreeeze in the freezer and circulating it through some kind of radiator in the shop and with a fan behind it. or just running cool water through it cooling it in tanks buried under ground.

Or should I just buy an ac unit and be done with it. though if it worked ok I would run it to the house also
Breezewood 24 inch mill
Have a wooderful day!!

wiam

In the summer I connect a line from an unused spring to the water to air heat exchanger in my forced air system. :)

Will

twoodward15

Just buy a window unit and get cooled down sooner!  Maybe you could work out a lumber trade, you never know!!!!
108 ARW   NKAWTG...N      Jersey Thunder

Ernie

Move to our part of New Zealand, it never gets too hot or too cold or too wet or too dry :) :)
A very wise man once told me . Grand children are great, we should have had them first

OneWithWood

Ernie, I'm jumpin' on the next bus headed your way! :D
One With Wood
LT40HDG25, Woodmizer DH4000 Kiln

Furby

Quote from: OneWithWood on May 18, 2005, 09:28:01 PM
Ernie, I'm jumpin' on the next bus headed your way! :D

Maybe you better bring your water wings! ;D

D._Frederick

Q-,

I don't think your little freezer will have enough BTU's per hour to be very effective. You  would get better results with a small window AC.

Ernie

OWW that bus better have balloon tires
A very wise man once told me . Grand children are great, we should have had them first

Quartlow

Quote from: D._Frederick on May 18, 2005, 10:51:21 PM
Q-,

I don't think your little freezer will have enough BTU's per hour to be very effective. You  would get better results with a small window AC.

I though about that, my thinking was, keep in mind I could be wrong, it happened once before  :D

That your going to have a lot more capicity than a window unit. Since the freezer is 24 inches square and 36 inches deep, not sure how many gallons that is but thats more coolant than a window unit has in freon. The problem is going to be recovery time

One variable I can see is rate of coolant flow, the faster the flow the less the coolent will warm as it goes through the exchanger in the shop.

The reason I'm trying to avoind a small window unit is DUST even with a dust collector and an air filter unit for the shop past experiance has shown me AC units get dust in them, aond there is no easy way to clean them. I figured a cold liquid system that could be disassembled easy and taken out side and hosed out would be the ticket.
Breezewood 24 inch mill
Have a wooderful day!!

JimBuis

BTUs are in fact the key.  :P They are the measurement of the cooling capacity of the compressor, evaporator, and condensor.  If the BTU rating of the freezer is less than that of the minimum size window unit, the design of the rest of your system regardless of how ingenious it may be will be immaterial.

The cubic foot capacity of your freezer will have no effect if the BTU rating of the cooling system (compressor, evaporator, and condensor) that cools it is inadequate for your application.  The larger cubic foot capacity will last for about 2 minutes until the water you are pumping in and out of it heats it up because you don't have enough BTU capacity to keep it cool.  Not having enough BTUs for cooling a space is like not having enough ice cubes in your ice tea. :)

There are commercial systems that function much as you have described.  The cooling unit is called a chiller.  There are many buildings around the world that are cooled in the summer with chilled water pumped through a piping system and then heated in the winter using the same piping system with the water heated in a boiler.

So.....go with a couple of window units.  By the way, you can easily clean a window unit.  The window unit shell can be left in the window, the guts of the unit slid out, take the guts outside and rise the coils out with a garden hose, be careful to not direct too much water pressure on the coils as you can flatten the metal fins easily, let the unit dry out in the sun or blow the excess water off of it with the blowgun on your air compressor, then reinstall it.  Also, many units have a filter in them that can be cleaned regularly.

Good luck,
Jim
Jim Buis                             Peterson 10" WPF swingmill

UNCLEBUCK

I have not noticed if your shop has a wood floor or cement ?  In the heat of summer I have a few smaller buildings with cement slab floor and its always nice and cool inside.
UNCLEBUCK    bridge burner/bridge mender

Brucer

Quote from: Quartlow on May 19, 2005, 06:24:40 AM
That your going to have a lot more capicity than a window unit. Since the freezer is 24 inches square and 36 inches deep, not sure how many gallons that is but thats more coolant than a window unit has in freon. The problem is going to be recovery time

One variable I can see is rate of coolant flow, the faster the flow the less the coolent will warm as it goes through the exchanger in the shop.

D._Frederick & JimBuis have pointed out the key factor -- the BTU/hr rating is what determines the cooling capacity. However, I think I see where you are coming from. You can use the freezer to chill the water even when you aren't in the shop (and no cool water is circulating). If you're in the shop 8 hours in 24, then the freezer unit could be rated at 1/3 the capacity of a window air conditioner -- IF it has enough thermal storage capacity.

24" x 24" x 36" = 75 Imp gallons = 90 US gallons = 750 pounds. Depending on your shop area and the number of air changes per hour you want, this could provide you with perhaps 2 hours of cooled air. It also depends on what the outdoor temperature is, and how cool you want the air to be inside.

BTW, the compressor motor horsepower ratings will give you a rough idea of the relative cooling capacity if you can't find BTU ratings.

If you can do it for cheap, it might be worth a try. Of course you were planning to put the freezer outside  ;D.
Bruce    LT40HDG28 bandsaw
"Complex problems have simple, easy to understand wrong answers."

maple flats

Just build a new shop IN THE WOODS with trees all around it will be cooler. My sugarhouse is about 10 degrees cooler than out in the open. Also, have a high cupola for ventilation, works great and make the cupola rather large, then in heating season just close it off to hold heat in. This is what keeps the sugarhouse cool and I've been in barns that were vented similar and were also the coolest place to be when it was hot out, as long as threr were no cows in it.
logging small time for years but just learning how,  2012 36 HP Mahindra tractor, 3point log arch, 8000# class excavator, lifts 2500# and sets logs on mill precisely where needed, Woodland Mills HM130Max , maple syrup a hobby that consumes my time. looking to learn blacksmithing.

Quartlow

I would love to build the new shop in the woods, but that just isn't gonna happen since the woods is all across the road.

I've been eyballing the spring fed ditch alongside the house, always wanted a coy pond, thinking of daming it up and running the spring water through the cooler, won't be as cold BUT since it would be higher than the shop it should flow all the time with no pump even cheaper  ;D and the outlay for pipe wouldn't be to bad as its only about 180 feet

I'm not looking to get it bone chilling cold in there just want to keep the temps at least under 80.
The new shop is gong to be a concrete floor, it will be WELL insulated. The shop I had at the MIL's house was 20X20, with a 10 foot ceiling, heated it with 2 milkhouse heaters easy even on the coldest days
Breezewood 24 inch mill
Have a wooderful day!!

JimBuis

Now you are talking about something doable. 8)  It would be good to know what the temperature of that spring water is in the summer.  If you are close to its source, it is possible that it comes out of the ground in a temperature range that could be used for direct cooling.  The trick is that the temperature of the water would dictate how large the coil and fan unit in your shop would have to be. :P  You could try plumbing in an old truck radiator and set an old house box fan behind it.  If it cools but just not enough to cool the shop, just add another similar unit or two and you'd be set.  Free cooling! ;D  In a way it seems impractical, but as long as you don't invest any serious money in parts, you won't lose anything for trying.  Measure the water temperature with a thermometer close to its source first though to see what the real temperature is.

Good luck,
Jim
Jim Buis                             Peterson 10" WPF swingmill

Quartlow

the source is across the road, but it runs in the shade right to the road through a concrete culvert and down a ditch on the property line also in the shade was thinking of making the holding pond about halfway down, never checked the temp of it but it is pretty cool.
Breezewood 24 inch mill
Have a wooderful day!!

maple flats

I've got a new heat exchange coil rated at 200,000 btu with 180 deg water@ 5 gal/min flow. Not sure what it woulb with cold water. Someone smater than me would need to compute it. The coil measures 25 x 25 and I think the thickness was 4.5", but need to verify that. If you are interested I can look up trhe price and woulg a little lower. The price I would have is from 1999. If interested I could bring it to SAWLEX if you are going to be there. Let me know.
logging small time for years but just learning how,  2012 36 HP Mahindra tractor, 3point log arch, 8000# class excavator, lifts 2500# and sets logs on mill precisely where needed, Woodland Mills HM130Max , maple syrup a hobby that consumes my time. looking to learn blacksmithing.

Quartlow

Tempting!!!! :D if nothing else it could go in the house since I want to do outside woodburner for next winter. Let me know man
Breezewood 24 inch mill
Have a wooderful day!!

maple flats

I'll look it up and give a price before sawlex and bring it with me if you are interested and plan to go. It would work a lot better for heating than cooling. In heating you pump 180 deg thru it and blow about 65 deg air thru it. For cooling your way you would pump maybe 40-50 degree water thru it and blow 80-100 deg air, big difference in ability to exchange degrees.
logging small time for years but just learning how,  2012 36 HP Mahindra tractor, 3point log arch, 8000# class excavator, lifts 2500# and sets logs on mill precisely where needed, Woodland Mills HM130Max , maple syrup a hobby that consumes my time. looking to learn blacksmithing.

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