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I Hate Harry Homeowner

Started by Ga_Boy, May 13, 2005, 05:50:56 PM

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Ga_Boy

I did a free; to the home owner; yard tree removal job this morning.  They had 6-8 trees taken down; these folks were referrals from my biggest supplier of logs; the logs they had were was not much of interest for me.  I did this job because of who referred them.

They had 2 Red Oaks some Pine and Poplar, the Pine had limbs all over it and the Poplar was small.

I told these folks that I was busy and wold fit them in when I had time, as I was not charging for the removal.

Well Dan Shade I showed up this mornig to pick up what we could.  I had 25 loads of free fill being deliverd from a excavating buddy, he need a place to dump.  Well, we get there and per my way of doing things I tackle the biggest and heavest logs first. 

Now it is about 9:00 AM, and my buddy calls telling me his drives are dumping dirt all over the place and I better get back and start directing the dumping or it will take me days to get this stuff where it needs to be.

I let dan know that I gotta go and he gets the two Oaks; I load up and head for home.  On my way the home owner calls and tells me he is going to sue me for breach of contract.   >:( >:(

Never mind the fact we do not have a contract and I am not charging for this service.  His wife calls me saying the samething.  I told them both I did what I said I would do and take what I could in the time I had.

If they call me back; all I gonna say is see you in court. >:(

While I was pushing dirt I decide that my free removal day just ended, now I charge $50/hour for tree removal with a $200 minmum.


I hate Harry homeowner. >:( >:( >:(


Before I forget to say it again, thanks to Dan for helping this morning. ;)




Mark
10 Acers in the Blue Ridge Mountains

Ernie

I wonder if Lawyer-sawyer would suggest that you join your biggest log supplier in as first named third party.  I'm sure they would be able to shut the little bas---- up for you.
A very wise man once told me . Grand children are great, we should have had them first

Ianab

Heck just tell him you offer a money back guarantee...
Ask him where you should send his check too, and wish him luck getting anyone else to cut his trees for free.

What a maroon  ::) 
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

Dan_Shade

I'm not sure what to make of this deal, I've been pondering it over pretty much all day.  I really don't know what they expected, not like this stuff is veneer grade.  In fact if I had seen what they had ahead of time, I probably wouldn't have even gone!

I figure the guy thinks we screwed him, and thinks we're making mint off of those logs.  I dunno.  I sorta think we should just gone back and dumped them back off to let them deal with the biggest and heaviest ones to get rid of them. 

But anyways, it was good to meet you, Mark, I wish we had time to get enough to make them happy, but oh well.

I wonder if people would pay to have them removed?  that would be even better.  I'd move logs out of yards for $200/ton, of course, I'd probably loose money at that rate.
Woodmizer LT40HDG25 / Stihl 066 alaskan
lots of dull bands and chains

There's a fine line between turning firewood into beautiful things and beautiful things into firewood.

crtreedude

Back when I did consultant work, it was the weirdest thing - if I tried to give someone a break - they acted like they owned me for life. But, if I charged the going rate - and then some, they always appreciated what I did, and if I went the extra mile - they were grateful.

I have noticed that cheap people are nearly impossible to please where as people who will always pay for what they get are some of the nicest people around.

just my dos colones
So, how did I end up here anyway?

spencerhenry

i also hate harry homeowner, or architect, or contractor. my experience has been that i have to charge for every penny to get respect.  most framing jobs ($20,000 to $30000), i do alot of changes for nothing, and then at the end of the job i charge like $200 for extras, i get held out for 30 days, or get shorted on the check, when if i had billed for all the extras, it would be closer to $1000. the contractor says "you have to work with me" so now i have a policy, send a bill for every dime, and then negotiate. if they stiff me on the check, or pay late i charge for everything. if only people could see that paying me on time saves them alot of money. >:(

Sawyerfortyish

I put my log truck together for picking up trees off of homeowners. I got a 100.00 a quarter truck load 2 for half a load and 4 hundred for a full load. The problem is you always end up with a pile of sh!#t to deal with. Make ruts or scrape the lawn you have to fix it or the trees are in the backyard where you can't get a machine. When I first started I did it for the logs. That didn't last long to figure out that I was losing money because it always took too long. Now if a homeowner calls to sell me trees I tell them I have no interest at all. The tree service that cut them should remove them. I've been running my mill for 24 yrs now and 99.9% of the homeowners wood is full of steel or has something else wrong with it or if it were worth anything the tree service would have taken it. They know what logs are worth too.

Daren

Try your hand at being a remodeling contactor. I beat me head against the wall for 3 years doing kitchen and bath remodels before I figured out it was not worth it, I could write a book on pain in the butt homeowners. I had a roll-off dumpster delivered on a friday for a job I was going to start monday. We were tearing out plaster and lathe, and redoing a big kithen. I showed up monday and the dumpster was FULL. The homeowner decided to clean out the basement and garage over the weekend. I was $210.00 I the hole before I got out of the truck. I had given her a firm price and every day they added something (ceiling fans instead of lights, garbage disposal, icemaker water line for a new fridge, move the gas for the stove...) She had not mentioned new appliances. She was having them delivered while we were working. I had to stop what I was doing and take the doors off to get them in. I could go on and on about this one job, I tried to tell her at the end of each day how much she was costing herself in extras, because my job was spelled out in the proposal. That one really turned ugly.
I had one crazy lady threaten to sue me too. I gave her a price on a kitchen remodel and put her on my schedule ( I was 2 months booked at the time) She called and put me off, because of health issues. (mental health I think) Then she called me back 6 months later and wanted me to price it again, I told her my old price would stand, and put her back on the book. This is about the time I was thinking about getting out of remodels. I explained that to her, but told her since her job was small I would still do it. She call AGAIN, saying she wanted to wait cause she was saving money and wanted more done than I had priced. I sent her a nice letter telling her I was going to be out of that type of work by the time she was ready, I was only doing new construction, but I could make some refferals to honest guys I had worked with in the past. She sent me a letter threatening to sue me because my proposal (now 8 months old) was a contract and if I didn't do the work I was breaking it. I just ignored it, heck I should have sued her for all the time I spent estimating and writing bids. I ended up plumbing a spec home for her son a year later, he was a good guy who paid fast. He said I was smart by not working for his mom she was bonkers.
Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it.

sawguy21

That is almost funny but it is so true. I sell lawn and garden equipment and get the same nonsense from the landscape contractors. I sit on quotes for weeks, make countless phone calls, then he comes in the day he wants to start work with it wanting an extra ten percent while we rush to get it set up and preserviced. Some days it's just not worth it
old age and treachery will always overcome youth and enthusiasm

Don P

A friend maintains that life keeps offering us the same lessons till we learn them and graduate to the next test. I have learned a few things, I have no interest in being the low bidder, I intentionally try not to be. Folks that can only operate by the bottom line usually end up butting heads with me. If someone is nice to me but not nice to the "little people" on the job they are not good people, I don't care how much green they have.  On bid construction jobs I try to be very specific about scope of work and I write up every change order no matter how small. It makes folks realize that their "little" changes do mount up fast. At the end of the job I decide whether to actually charge for the changes or not, depends on their attitude more than my bottom line. Yesterday we pretty much wrapped up our job on the cabin at the river. The homeowners presented us all with embroidered T's and hats with the company name and gave my wife a nice hosta. They have been a pleasure to work for, we had already done the math and we came out ok, we all liked the folks, dog musta ate the change orders  :D.

etat

QuoteThe homeowners presented us all with embroidered T's and hats with the company name and gave my wife a nice hosta.

Quotewe all liked the folks, dog musta ate the change orders


Them kind of folks is the ones that makes it all worthwhile :) :) :)
Old Age and Treachery will outperform Youth and Inexperence. The thing is, getting older is starting to be painful.

Cedarman

We all want to be liked. But my experience says it is better to be respected. Being liked can go along with respect.  I have always felt that when people beat you down and get you to discount or throw in freebies or expect changes without paying, or upgrading at the same price that they chuckle to themselves after the deal. When you get the car dealer to get to rock bottom do you feel gratitude towards the car salesman or satisfaction for beating them down.

So, my goal is to be fair, to treat each customer the same.  I hold my nose and charge the lawyer the same for 100 feet of lumber as anyone else.  I want to treat all people equal.  If I give one person a discount and not someone else I am not being fair.  Now if a customer treats me extra special and makes it easy to please them, then I am getting payment of a different sort and will react accordingly.

I had a customer that abused my help and told him that since I could not please him, he could buy the rest of his order somewhere else.  He cussed and said he would sue.  I told him to bring it on.   Never heard from him again. (Glad)

I think this thread points out that giving stuff away free can be more expensive than we think.
I am in the pink when sawing cedar.

Daren

I might have learned a lesson today. GA_Boy's original post was about removing trees free for saw logs. In a question posted earlier about clearing lots for free for saw logs, I said never. Charge for the removal service and keep what is worth sawing, or for fire wood. I guess I should never say never. I had a customer who buys lumber from me ask a while back if I removed trees just for something to saw, because he had a buddy with a lake lot that needed some removed. I told him no I usually have enough logs and am not into the hassle, and gave him the number of my buddy who has a tree service. I figured for sure this guy had an acre of junk, scrub, that a guy would spend days hauling limbs off for free (and he knew it and was trying to get a sucker to bite)
Well the man with the trees to clear called today and said his buddy told him I had a sawmill and he had some trees cleared. I guess it was a long time managed lot. He had to take out 16 white oaks to build (just the oaks, no junk trees) He said the guy he found to cut for the logs took 13 bigger ones and he kept 3 smaller ones 20"-24" would I saw them for him. I said of course, bring them down. Man did I ever get a sinking feeling. The place is only 15 minutes from my mill. I have just driven an hour a few times to look at what I imagined he had, boy was I wrong on this one. Good for the guy he got to do it, and for him. I guess I still get a little something out of the deal , a 1/2 days sawmilling, and he still knew my rep. and I got work even though I said no to the removal. I would have liked to have the trees. Oh well, maybe next time.
Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it.

maple flats

Reminds me of the time I was installing a new outdoor furnace for a real nice guy. When we (my company was a small partnership of my brother and myself) finished he gave both of us a very handsome cash tip. He took us by surprise since we were the owners and not just underpaid employees.
I only dislike the homeowners trying to get everything for nothing, and more often than not it seems to be the ones who have and not the have nots.
logging small time for years but just learning how,  2012 36 HP Mahindra tractor, 3point log arch, 8000# class excavator, lifts 2500# and sets logs on mill precisely where needed, Woodland Mills HM130Max , maple syrup a hobby that consumes my time. looking to learn blacksmithing.

SwampDonkey

I agree with maple flats, the ones that drag on with payment issues are the ones with money. That's why they have it, don't like to part with it. ;)
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

leweee

Quote

« Reply #14 on: Today at 04:05:20 PM »    Reply with quote
I agree with maple flats, the ones that drag on with payment issues are the ones with money. That's why they have it, don't like to part with it. Wink


Truer words were never spoken ;) ::) ;D
just another beaver with a chainsaw &  it's never so bad that it couldn't get worse.

Rockn H

Quote from: SwampDonkey on May 15, 2005, 04:05:20 PM
I agree with maple flats, the ones that drag on with payment issues are the ones with money. That's why they have it, don't like to part with it. ;)

I have to add that it seems the people who work hard for what little money they have seem to under stand the value of work itself.  They often pay their debts even if it means being left a little short themselves.  Ga_Boy for what its worth  your not the only one to find yourself being the bad guy when you try to do something for free.  On a different note.  A friend of mine is so tight he squeaks when he walks, always trying to get something for free.  A while back he needed some lumber and well I told him if he cut a couple of his trees and got'em ready I'd cut'em up.  He never would do it, kept wanting to know what was in it for me. ???  Well I've educated the guy some since then ;D but I try to remember that some people cant help feeling that if your doing anything for free it is because you are getting something over on them. ;)

Kirk_Allen

I have to say this weekend I was blessed.  Fridays cutting job was small but since I had time I spent an extra hour talking and working with the customer and helped him carry boards.  When I was done I got paid cash and a $60 tip.   8)

Saturdays job was quite a bit bigger but even that job turned into a great experience and a $140 tip that I could not except.  I thanked them for the offer but I couldn't except that much for simply doing my job.  They insisted on nothing less than $80.00 Tip. 

I wish I cold find more people like those folks who appreciate a honest days work and reward those who provide it! 

Fla._Deadheader


Ya have it too good, Kirk. We had a phone message today, that someone was pickin through our slab pile.  ::) ::) >:(  Just because it ain't stacked pretty, don't mean it's free  :o >:( ;D
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

etat

If it weren't for the homeowners I'd probably be working for someone else.  And let me tell ya, I KNOW I've been extremely lucky.  For as long as I've been working for myself 99 percent of the time, except for on new construction, I furnish materials and labor and never asked for money in advance (I guess I was afraid I'd spend it before I got the job done).  I've only been stiffed out of one day's work, once.  I went back and stole their 'broom'!. ;D  I kept that broom for years and always threatened my workers to take care of it cause it was such a high dollar broom.  I think I had close to Five Hundred dollars in it!!!!!!!!!!! 8) 8) 8)

That said I DID get some brick stole from me the other day.  NOT from a homeowner, just a low life skumbag that ain't worth the time of day.  The homeowner DID pay me back for the bricks her son stole though. :)
Old Age and Treachery will outperform Youth and Inexperence. The thing is, getting older is starting to be painful.

rebocardo

Guess I have been lucky, people I have cut down or removed trees for free were very grateful. On the only job where I damaged property (free tree removal next to a car port) the lady just asked that it not leak. So, $25 of new shingles and wood it was done and we were both happy. Plus, now I always use at least two lines on any tree near a house no matter how small.  One of life's cheaper lessons :D

> I have noticed that cheap people are nearly impossible to please where as people who
> will always pay for what they get are some of the nicest people around.

That is the truth 100%.

I stopped a scrap metal guy going by my house to haul stuff away. I asked how much, he said for free since he gets paid for the metal. He took my mufflers, cat. cnvtrs, rotors, gas stove, railings, fencing, scrap steel, exhaust pipes, my old pick up bed, broken lamps, and weed eater.  I asked nicely and he even took my 33" cut in 1/2 mud tire. I paid him $25 anyways. Originally all I was willing to pay was $10 to get rid of some stuff, he made more money by being honest and working hard in a 1/2 an hour then I ever would have paid him originally.  I was looking for metal for him, even found some 1/2 plate to give him. I like good honest service  :)




Camp Run Farm

Thirty years in the commercial contracting business and I have a PHD in scumbag recognition.  A couple of rules will save you a ton of grief, NEVER work for an attorneyor a general contractor, if you have a bad feeling about a job don't walk away, RUN!  The bank doesn't saw lumber and you shouldn't finance projects!!!!  GET THE MONEY!

Ga_Boy

I guess some good has come from all this.

Yesterday I was killing weeds in my yard when two dump trucks came rumbling down my road.  One of them was from Firday.

They start heading to where I was dumping on Friday.   I had to go mark a lot for trees that I getting, so I get on the phone to call my buddy to ask how many loads I can expect, I want to be there to direct the trucks.  I did not get him so I left a message.

I direct the first truck to where I want him, then go to the second.  The first truck dumps his load, the driver gets out to talk to me, he tells me that this stuff is from another local contractor's site; not my buddy's.

Well now I am real confused, I know of this other contractor but did not know he was sending dirt to me.  The driver tells me that my place is closer than the pit and these two guys will be dumping at least two loads per day this week.  This way they get home quicker.

8) 8) 8) 8)  10 loads of free clean fill.   8) 8) 8) 8) 8)


Life ain't so bad after all.





Mark
10 Acers in the Blue Ridge Mountains

Brad_S.

Mark,
I've had experience with fill.  smiley_annoyed01
Best thing to do is hook up with a local site contractor, the bigger the better, and give him exclusive use of the area you want filled. Otherwise, if these dump truck guys were independents, next time they have a load, they'll remember your site and dump there, whether it's stuff you want or not. I hooked up with a guy who ended up sending hundreds of loads of clean fill and provided a dozer every time as well.
My two hard earned cents on fill. :D
"Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans." J. Lennon

Quartlow

I quit doing stuff for free a long time ago, Now I may barter  :D In fact my firs sawing job is still here. One of those a friend of friend of friend deals. Brought up one cherry log and about 25 decent pine logs. Wanted the pine cutinto 2X stock for a shed. he had more logs than he needed and I needed some pine so I told heim if he came up and helped I would cut his stuff for free as long as we didn't hit any metal, and I got what was left. that was last summer. I sawed the cherry log and stacked and stickered it since I hate to see cherry wasted the pine sat around till a few weeks ago. I've called him 8 or 9 times and tolds him this wasn't his persoanal storeage yard. Last time I called him told him he had 30 day or the logs where mine that was 4 months ago. needless to say his pine logs are going into my new shop  :D :D :D :D
Breezewood 24 inch mill
Have a wooderful day!!

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