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Log Dogs For Swing Mill

Started by Ga_Boy, May 04, 2005, 02:20:50 PM

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Ga_Boy

There was a thread a few montho ago where Peterson teased us about a log dogging system in development for swingers.

I got a milling job coming up soon and was wondering about this system; when it will be available and for how much?

Any hints would be helpful, got a decission point coming up fast.




Mark
10 Acers in the Blue Ridge Mountains

Part_Timer

Ga_Boy

I talked to the peterson guys this weekend about cutting small logs if you go to their web site look under accessories and find log dogs on the lower left side. 

there is a picture of them somewhere on there but I could not find it this time

hope this helps
Peterson 8" ATS.
The only place success comes before work is in the dictionary.

HORSELOGGER

What they call log dogs are just glorified bucking spikes like you would find on a bigger chainsaw.They dont actually grip the log and hold it still. Mobile Dimension and Mighty Mite both sell good manual log dogs that go on top of a 4 by. Brand X has some really good and aggressive dogs that go on a steel I beam bunk that you would have to provide. They are expensive, but they work well.
Heritage Horselogging & Lumber Co.
"Surgical removal of standing timber, Leaving a Heritage of timber for tommorow. "

Ga_Boy

I guess, if Peterson does not comment then I will buy the MD dogs as I need something soon.




Mark
10 Acers in the Blue Ridge Mountains

Captain

Hey Mark, glad your mill is in...just wondering where the pictures are??

In my 3 years milling with my Peterson, I've never used anything but wooden skids with good, square edged notches of the appropriate size.  I typically use notches that range between 5 and 8 inches, depending on the diameter of the log.  Only on rare occasions when sawing the last board do I get any movement of the lower slab and a board gets inaccurate.  The two biggest reasons are :  1) I typically like to use my metal detector on the log when it is on the bunks, I can check the entire circumference, even underneath  2) I like the ability to be able to "kiss" the bunks with the blade to get that last board and not to worry about blade damage

YES you have to slow down for the cuts in a lower slab.  YES you may have to make two horizontal passes to get a wide board, say 8", out of the bottom slab.  I'll typically cut 4", return with the blade flat, cut the last 4" then swing the blade to vertical and complete the board.  You've got to use your head.

I just did a job over the weekend where we cut 30+ oak logs averaging about 14" inches in diameter, some larger, some smaller.  No log dogs, only one miscut in a slab on a 1x4 lost to movement ( it dropped in the bunk after the horizontal cut, sawyer error  >:()  We cut 1993 BF of 1 1/8" stock in 7 hours.  Not bad for the average size log.

Peterson's current log dogs are a supplement to the wood skids an notches applied to a wood skid.  They are designed to keep the log from sliding or turning when the log is small or the slab gets small.  As Horselogger said, they are like chainsaw bucking spikes, and there is a sliding spike on the newer sets to kick into the log and keep the log from turning to the right when the offside gets heavy.  I have a set.  I've never used them.  I do however see an application in the Automated mill where you are seperated from the sensation of pushing the mill into the log.  I am over agressive at times and get some movement of the lower slabs as a result with the ASM.  ::)

If a set of dogs similar to a bandmill is what you are interested in, heavy, positive, then get a set from Mobile Dimension.  Once applied to a skid and set onsite, be sure to add a couple of hose clamps to your mill carriage to limit the drop of your saw carriage so you do not hit steel.  IF I were setup in a production setting on a concrete slab and not moving the mill often, I would probably have a set.  Wood skids are more appropriate for the many variables that I encounter out in the field.

I was in your shoes too.  When I first bought my mill I was absolutely convinced that I needed log dogs immediately.  Once I gave the square edged notches a try after my initial problems with "V" style grooves, I've been very satisfied!!

Best of luck Mark.  When are you coming up again so we can mill for a day??

CAPTAIN


sigidi

I too give a hearty thumbs up for timber skids, I do use baten screws to hold down 3x1.5" blocks either side of the log rather than notches, but I find a cordless drill sinks the screws low and like Captain, I like to get everything I can out of each log ;)
Always willing to help - Allan

Ga_Boy

Craig and Sigidi,

Thanks for the advise on the bunks.  My specific concern is my first job as some monster Oaks, 50" plus and a bunck of smaller stuff in the 18" and lower range.

You are correct in that I am worried of the log moving when trying to get the last few boards out.

I will try the square notches on bunks.

What is a good size for bunk stock?  4X4, 5X5, 6X6... well you get the picture.






Mark
10 Acers in the Blue Ridge Mountains

Timo

Mark,

I recently took delivery of a Peterson WPF and am having the same dilema as you. I have been working a deck of Maple logs ranging from 16" to 40", all about 10-12 feet long. the only time I have wished for a more positive doging system is when
a) I was trying to move one slab on top of another (upside down) so I could get a nice wide board with bark edging. The weight was a bit much for me, and the lower slab shifted as I was positioning the upper slab, resulting in a tapered cut. In reality, I would have had to have a pretty aggressive clamping system to avoid this....
b) trying to get a beam out of the center of a bent log, the whole thing started twisting on me as I was about 2/3rds through and the force shoved the log out of whack - it ended up as firewood, which is what I should have done with it in the first place.

What I have noticed is the need for a more sophisticated leveling system. The logs are varied in the deck, some are butt south, some butt north, and most have odd sides or angle that require some leveling.

Currently I am using a jackall and shoving shims under - which is time consuming and un-percise. I just purchased some 3" steel channel, and am planning to build 3 ajustable log supports using sissor jacks (from import cars) as the up/ down mechanism. I intend to cut  3"x12" slab for each that will slide up and down supported by channel on either end (I'm sorry if this does not deliver a very good mental picture - I'll try to take pictures when ever I get this thing done ::). I plan to have a simple dogging system attached to the top as well - haven't worked that out fully yet - but am thinking of making some aluminum teeth that can be hammered or screwed into the log. I bought an old 24" saw blade that I was going to cut the teeth off of, but the thought of hitting one with my blade make me really cringe :o.

I think haveing a well thought out leveling/ dogging system is a good idea. Not sure what is on the market - but I'm going to make my own anyway.

Good luck, let us know how what ever you purchase works for you....
Peterson WPF27 with bipedal, dual grapple, 5'6" loader/ offloader

woodbeard

I agree with Cap and Sigidi on the bunks. I started out thinking I had to devise some sort of holding device, but after doing so, found that the simple notched bunks work fine, and are a lot less hassle. I made mine out of 8x8 oak.

HORSELOGGER

Its all in what you are willing to deal with and call acceptable. Notched bunks can and do work ok for most general stuff. If you have never
actually sawed a log that was dead solid dogged, I guess a wobbly slab that you have to pussy foot through so the saw dont spit it off the bunks can seem ok. ::) If you want to have one less thing to be worried about while sawing , get some real dogs 8) ( It is actually ridiculus to sell a sawmill with no provision whatsoever to safely and securely dog the log while sawing, leaving the buyer to device his own method)
Heritage Horselogging & Lumber Co.
"Surgical removal of standing timber, Leaving a Heritage of timber for tommorow. "

woodbeard

 ;D  And I agree with that, as well. Someday I will probably cough up the $$ for something better.

Captain

 :D

So will I George, so will I.....

My wood bunks are usually 6x8 or 8x8.  My notches are different sizes to accomodate log taper, to a degree.  I still ahve to get the jack out now and again.

Captain

Ga_Boy

Craig,

Sorry that I forgot the mention about the pictures and such.  I may be headed back to hartford in a month or so.  If this happens I will let you know; I still want to come up and play with your toys. ;D

My plan was to document the assembly process; but the process was minimal, bolt on the end frames, push handle, mount the tach/hour meter and hook up the battery.  Now that battery thing was the most diffcult part, that took a while to figure out which wire went where. ;) ;)

I had watched the video so much that I was prepared for a detailed process, it was not that much to do.

I do have pictures of my first board.  I have a giant Yellow Poplar that I am carving up to make construction material.  This will be my shead for my cyclone and air compressor.  I have the thought to make it big enough to house my power head and carrige.

I was going to start on a smaller log but was unable to get to the one I wanted and went for the log that was the easy to get off the stack.

I will put these up this weekend, I have spent the past few days acting as computer geek.  I am standing up a new box and reconfiguring two old boxes for my home network.   I had this operation contracted out but the contractor managed to hose up my BRAND NEW box to the point that I had to use the system recovery disk to get it back to its orginal configuration and start over.   >:( >:( >:(

All they had to do was install XP Pro. >:( >:(    I just finished formatting the hard drive and reinstalling XP Pro on one of the older boxs yesterday, I still have one box running XP Home edition that the kids have hosed this one up to the point that it is unuseable; I guess I will run the system recovery disk on this box as well.   Then I will be ready for the networking stuff that I know nothing about.  Hence why I wanted to contract this out. >:( >:(

I do not have the time to be a computer geek and saw at the same time. 

Who needs sleep; it's over rated. ::)

Where is my Red Bull.




Mark
10 Acers in the Blue Ridge Mountains

Fla._Deadheader


  I gots a question. ::)

  Gotta fab up something to cut "small" logs. Going to be sawin 10" and under, thinnings of Teak. Was thinkin of a swinger and sawing 2 sides, and then flipping the log to cut the other 2 sides ??  Making cants to resaw might be the best way, in the beginning.

  Swinger would also be used on large stuff. Found a couple of 2nd or 3rd cuts from a nice log. The ones I found were higher than me. Can't imagine the size of the butt cut. ::) ;D ;D
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

DanG

Harold, something like you have on Homie would work well on a swinger.  You might want to have a little more aggressive dogs on it to handle the side forces from the circle blade, though.

I think you'll find that turning a small log on a swinger would be a waste of time, as a general rule.  You can just dip into it and take a board out wherever you want. ;D  Same goes for resawing. ???  Why handle it more than once?  The little savings in the kerf would be far outweighed by the extra handling, not to speak of maintaining a  second machine.  Part of the charm of the swinger/multi-blade concept, is the "one step to a complete board" factor. :)
"I don't feel like an old man.  I feel like a young man who has something wrong with him."  Dick Cavett
"Beat not thy sword into a plowshare, rather beat the sword of thine enemy into a plowshare."

HORSELOGGER

Yep... What DanG said ;) Have ya had a chance to go work with a swinger yet Harold?
Heritage Horselogging & Lumber Co.
"Surgical removal of standing timber, Leaving a Heritage of timber for tommorow. "

Fla._Deadheader


Nope, no swinger experience, yet  ::)  Whatever happened to ole whatshisname, from North Carolina, with the 10" Peterson, we was all gonna get together with ??  Man, my brain is fadin, fast. ::) ::) >:(
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

Ga_Boy

Harold,

That would be Cosmopack (Chris).  I have been wondering the same thing, seeing as I kinda started that adventure, I'll call Chris tomorrow and see what is up.

I ain't seen him on here lately.  I'll let you know what I find out.



Mark
10 Acers in the Blue Ridge Mountains

Fla._Deadheader


  That's his handle allright. DanG, I feel terrible about how my memory is fadin. Maybe it's all that Espanol I'm tryin to pour into my skull??

  Thanks, Mark. ;) ;D
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

Ga_Boy

Harold,

I've got a call in to Chris, but as of yet; no reply.




Mark
10 Acers in the Blue Ridge Mountains

Fla._Deadheader


Last I recollect, he was movin and had some issues crop up, er sumpin ??
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

Captain

Cosmo is doing well, sawing breakdown with the swinger on a 4-5 day a week basis.  He has moved and has issues with internet access that he is sorting out. 

He contacted me last week looking for track extensions.

Harold, rather than NC you should just run to Ohio for Sawlex....

Captain

DanG

Cap'n got it right, Harold.  If you're serious about getting a different type mill, a trip to Ohio would be a good investment.  You could see all of them working side by side, and view all the little inconveniences that some of them have built in. 
"I don't feel like an old man.  I feel like a young man who has something wrong with him."  Dick Cavett
"Beat not thy sword into a plowshare, rather beat the sword of thine enemy into a plowshare."

Ga_Boy

Craig,

It looks like I will see you in Ohio.  Planning the travel stuff now.



Mark
10 Acers in the Blue Ridge Mountains

Wife

Hi everybody!

Been a bit quiet on the homefront down under. I've been home recovering from a hernia operation (yes, I'm fine now). Jake and Craig have been in Europe demonstrating ASMs (with great interest) at Ligna, France, and England. Just got back. Now Chris flies out today, for an agent trip in Guyana, and prep for the Ohio Shootout.

SO I MUST APOLOGISE FOR THE FACT THAT THE NEW LOG DOGS ARE NOT READY YET. The bummer is that they will have missed Chris' flight by only 4 days!!

But I promise to get Jake to put up lots and lots of pikkys and details once he gets the first finished set from the laser cutters.

Kerris Browne
Kerris, in the background....
Petersons Global Sales Ltd
15c Hyland Cres
Rotorua, New Zealand
www.petersonsawmills.com
kbrowne@petersonsawmills.com
Ph +64 7 3480863

Jeff

Hey! Kerris! Welcome home! ;) :)
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

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