Slash residue in stream

[Frickman]

I have a question for all you foresters, especially those familiar with eastern hardwood forests. Here in Pennsylvania we are required to remove all tops, limbs, and other residue that end up in a waterway during a timber harvest. I can go along with that fine, and make it my practice. I have had some government foresters tell me though that if I find anything that fell into the stream naturally to leave it alone, as I would be disturbing the habitat. They said that some woody debris in a stream is beneficial for many types of critters.

Now here is my question/dilema. I am getting ready to harvest a tract of timber that has a very small stream/creek running through it. This stream averages three feet wide by one foot deep. It has only moderate flow, as it drains a seventy five acre plateau halfway up the mountain. For about one thousand feet there is not a bit of woody debris in this stream at all. It runs through a nearly mature stand of hardwoods, and is devoid of most any kind of aquatic life. Should I leave a little debris in the stream to help out the wildlife? I can do it without causing problems with the flow of the stream. Also, this harvest is about one and a half miles off the public road, so I'm not too concerned with the authorities giving me a problem. This timber will be hauled out with a forwarder, as the site is not really accessible by pickup. Should I bend/break the law to possibly help out the wildlife? Or should I play it straight and keep the entire stream clean?

[Tillaway]

Stick with the rules, but contact the local fish and wildlife state agency.  If you are interested in stream habitat improvement they can really help you design a beneficial project.

[Texas Ranger]

Agreed with Tillaway, test cases are expensive.

[Gary_C]

Absolutely ask for help. They are always angry and negative if you are found to have violated the rules, even with the best of intentions. However they may give you a pat on the back if you ask first with a good idea.

[Ron Scott]

Ditto! to all the above. Best Management Practices (BMP's) normally doesn't put logging or woody debris into a watercourse so don't do it without permission or a fisheries improvement plan from your local DNR first to do so.

Woody debris in a stream may have benefit to "other resources", but it is not an accepted logging practice to do so unless it's planned and designed into the harvest plan with the proper permits.

It would be a good effort to cooperate with your local DNR if they want some woody debris placed in the stream, but do it according to their "plan and prior approval".

There are also stream sections where they "don't want" any woody debris placed so you don't want to get on the "wrong side" of them and have to remove it with a possible fine atached. The area may be far back in the woods but the agency people have their sources for getting information on such locations, such as aircraft patrols here. The fire detection plane isn't only looking for fires.  ;)

[SwampDonkey]

I've seen these little creatures in just about every stream in my area.

Crayfish

More Crayfish info

You normally won't see one unless ya get in the brook and fish around rocks and debris by hand. Be carefull they don't latch on. :D  ;)

[Texas Ranger]

Hmmmmmmmmmm,  mud bugs, mud bug etoufe, with corn bread.  And a cold Shiners.

Time for lunch yet?

[Doc]

Hmmmmmmmmmm,  mud bugs, mud bug etoufe, with corn bread.  And a cold Shiners.

Time for lunch yet?

You got that straight! Big pile of hot mudbugs and cornbread.......oh buddy.....it is close to lunch for me!

Doc

[Ron Wenrich]

It ain't necessarily the authorities you have to worry about.  A number of years ago, I had a logging job that was above municipal water supply.  I wasn't too worried about it, since I had logging jobs on other watersheds with no problems.

On this particular job, the logger drove through a ditch that was an old right-of-way to one of the properties.  There was no water flowing and there was stone across the ditch.

One day the PA Fish Commission shows up and says the logger is skidding through a stream.  $500 fine.  Their forester started to protest and it was immediately put at $1000.  Needed a pipe.

The initial thought was the water company was having problems.  When we checked with them, they had no increase in turbidity or any problems whatsoever.  They hadn't complained.

It ended up being one of the adjoining neighbors that was involved in a land swap.  It was his old land that was being logged, and he didn't like it.  Called the Fish Commission to get the job shut down. 

I think the logger got out of the fine and the job was completed.  Just don't ever think that you're too far in for authorities to notice. 

[Phorester]

Are you also the landowner?  If not, what's the landowner want to do?

This is a land management decision that should be made by him. You can guide him, even suggest he seek other professional advice.  But I'd opt to let him make the decision. 

[Frickman]

Thanks for all the responses guys. I think that I'll play it by the straight and narrow and keep everything out of the stream. The landowner is very interested in promoting wildlife, so if he wants to do something like this he can after I'm gone.