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Tree Age (SYP)

Started by Tom, April 29, 2005, 11:34:32 PM

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Tom

I was talking to a young friend who has received an Associates Degree in Forestry. During the conversation he said that he was told to add 3 years to the rings of a log to determine the age.  I thought he might have been talking about Long Leaf and suggested that he could probably add 3 to 5 years since it was in the grass stage for that long.   I think he felt that I was making fun of him but I wasn't . 

Why would you add 3 years to the log?  I can only surmise that it is to capture the rings that terminated within the stump.  Ring count is really only fairly accurate for counts that are taken at the base of the tree.  Is there a specific height at which an increment boorer is used?  What could I say tomorrow that will open the conversation back up without my sounding like I'm challenging his knowledge? :)

Texas Ranger

Tom, on the base of a butt cut log, MAYBE one year, but, ring count by borer is at 4.5 feet, usually, and an add on of three years is reasonable.  That's on a standing tree, so need to define where he is taking his reading.  Of course, with fertilization and herbicide, may only be one or two years.
The Ranger, home of Texas Forestry

Ron Scott

As Don said, the age is taken on a standing tree at breast height (4.5 feet) with an increment bore. I'm not sure for SYP in your area, but here in the Lake States there is an average number of years to reach breast height by species and site i.e.

Species    Good Site    Average Site   Poor Site & Suppressed Trees

  Aspen               1                    1                                  2
  Red Pine           6                    8                                 10
  Hard Maple       8                   10                                15
  etc, etc.
~Ron

SwampDonkey

Pretty much the same add-on age as Ron Scott says, for my area too. 1 yr for suckered aspen/poplar, 5 years for softwood and 8 years for hardwood. Taken at breast height 4.5 feet (1.3 meters ;D ). It's funny about hardwood though, if grown in good conditions they out grow softwood in height when young. In shade, balsam fir can be 30 years old and under a meter. :D

cheers
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Tom

Thanks fellows.  I was able to speak fairly adequately today.  SYP definitely hasn't got the slow first years as some of the other woods you are accustomed to.   I figure his teachers estimate for adding 3 years on  most Syps is pretty good.  Long Leaf is a different story. :D

Andy Henriksen

Quote from: Ron Scott on April 30, 2005, 01:28:22 PM
As Don said, the age is taken on a standing tree at breast height (4.5 feet) with an increment bore. I'm not sure for SYP in your area, but here in the Lake States there is an average number of years to reach breast height by species and site i.e.

Species    Good Site    Average Site   Poor Site & Suppressed Trees

  Aspen               1                    1                                  2
  Red Pine           6                    8                                 10
  Hard Maple       8                   10                                15
  etc, etc.

Hey Ron,

Do you have a complete reference list of these ages to BH?  That owuld be interesting info to have for a number of reasons. 

SwampDonkey

Andy,

The only reference I have is a Tender that outlines cruising procedures for Forest Development Surveys on private woodlots in my area, for Dept of Natural Resources. It's about 3.5 megs in size. The procedures outlined are standard for New Brunswick. I know there were papers written on aging trees somewhere, but they aren't likely to be published on the web, they go a few years back.

http://www.klondikekonsulting.com/files/FDS-Tender5305025.pdf
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Ron Scott

Yes, I have a more detailed listing of species for the Lake States. It's a page in the Timber Management Field Book 1975 Edition available (if still available) from the USDA-Forest Service; Northeastern Area; State & Private Forestry: Radnor, PA 19087-4585

It is publication number NA-MR-7 and provided free of charge. It might be available from your State Forester also.
The US GPO number is 1985-509-329/27046

I still have an original Field Book with texaprint (water proof) pages in a hard cover pocket size binder from my days with the USDA-Forest Service.
No forester should be without one as it contains about everything one might want or need to know. :P
~Ron

crtreedude

If I read this right, you are saying that it takes hard maple 8+ years to reach a height of 4.5 feet. Wow. You can tell I don't grow northern hardwoods.  :o

That is average 1 year growth for teak here - about 2 years for Mahogany and Surá.

So, how did I end up here anyway?

SwampDonkey

The first year you get the cotyledons and the first true leaves, and that's it, maybe 10 cm (4 inches) tall. Takes about 15 years to get a 5 meter maple tree here, spaced acres of it with a Stihl FS550. Ten years just isn't long enough to wait before thinning hardwood. Speeking of non suckered trees. Some of my spruce plantation I'm thinning this spring is 9 years old with trees from 2 to 3.5 meters tall. The planted trees are all from improved stock. We only have about 5 months growing season, compared to your 10 or 12. ;D
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

crtreedude

Sorry to do this to you.  ;D Twenty Month old teak on our place.  And they started 4 inches tall and were 6 weeks old from seed.



After they get some height - they then start getting thicker - these are between 3 to 5 inches thick now.

I am not sure I could grow trees up north, I have never been that patient.

Yes, our trees are way beyond normal growth though - usually in 2 years you would be happy with 12 foot trees.
So, how did I end up here anyway?

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