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Wood burning truck!

Started by ellmoe, April 28, 2005, 08:18:40 PM

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SwampDonkey

This here has always been a great thread. Too bad I'm on dial-up.  But, I'm sure we have room for one more wood gas generator. ;D Sure beats all the water vapor in the "weather" thread. :D
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Ron57

Hi The wood gas generator is coming along pretty good,we ran into some problems though. My next one will go twice as fast. The unit ended up over five foot tall thats a foot taller than I was hoping it to end up,but not to bad being the first thing I ever built.We put flanges connecting the upper and lower tanks thats a good idea, but didnt know how towork in the ignition port probbably just weld it into make an air tight seal between the tanks. We also poured 1 1/2 inches of refractory lining in side the fuel tank about 1 1/2 foot up from thje bottom. Next Ineed to build the condensate tank and lid. Have a good day!!

Paul_H

Ron,

I used an existing threaded 1" hole that was in the tank for my ignition port and it happened to be at the level of the nozzles,so all that was needed was a corresponding hole in the outer tank to fit the 1" nipple through.
I'm really interested in seeing the refractory lining,I think it will work better than the stainless liner in mine.
Science isn't meant to be trusted it's to be tested

Ron57

 






Paul,
Here are some pics of inside steps of my generator so far. Including the refractory lining. I used galvanized sheet metal for the mold, as you can see it moved a little, but it should still do the job. It also added 50# to the weight. Hopefully it pays back with clean gas.
Ron

Fla._Deadheader


  Just read an article, where, some guys are looking into burning LARGE wood Pellets in their gasifiers ???  Might be a new marketing possibility.  8) ;D ;D ??? ???
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

Ron57

We have a couple of large pellet mills start up in our area in the last couple years ,along with alot of grade sawmills closing up. Making a shortage of wood fibre for bedding, so the price of sawdust and chips is worth the handling. Here we use most of our fine sawdust for fuel to fire a kiln to heat treat pallets it works pretty good. not as fast and easy as propane but a lot cheeeeper.

TexasTimbers

Paul,

Might be a dumb question because i do not understand how much heat, and how sustained it needs to be to start the gasifier, but couldn't you install a 12v igniter on your tank so you don't have to cram paper in it? Those things are cheap. Another possibility would be a push button igniter like you can buy at a welding shop. Those onlygive a brief spark so it might not work in your application. But the 12v igniter would glow red hot as long as you needed. It could be manual or you could install a timed one. ???
The oil is all in Texas, but the dipsticks are in D.C.

Ron57

  Got the flaring fan in yesterday ,thinking about test running the unit without the filter just to see what happens 8). What is the best size fuel to run from your experience and moisture content? Since I dont have any charred wood to start with can I use charcoal briquettsin the grate to get things started? Almost ready to go!!

Paul_H

Ron,

you can't use charcoal briquettes but you can buy a bag of the real charcoal and that will work fine.Beginning with a layer of charcoal up past the nozzles is very important,otherwise you will make a huge blob of tar that will ruin your engine :-X

On top of the charcoal you should put a few inches of domino sized wood chunks followed by the normal sized chunks which are 2x2x3" or smaller.I try to keep my chunks at 1.5 x2x 2 if I can but it's all by eye anyway.
The book that came with your plans should tell you the proper way but don't scrimp on the charcoal or it'll ruin your day.

This link has some good procedures for lighting the first time.

Link

After lighting your gasifier,keep the fan going and let it smoke unit you can smell a distinct creosote smell and then hold a flame up to it and you should see the smoke disappear and notice heat waves.Allow it time to get up to temperature to make clean gas before running your engine.

Are you doing all this outside?

Kevin,

I'll get back to you regarding the electric igniter.I have no experience with them but Vesa Mikkonen's book shows them,I just need to dig it out.
Science isn't meant to be trusted it's to be tested

Paul_H

Kevin,

I found Vesa's book this afternoon and read up about the igniters he has used.
One is simply a wire loop(he says acid proof,I think he means SS ) as a electric element at the nozzle level and the fuel delivery is a squeeze bulb from a outboard motor that sprays a mixture of white gas and turpentine over the heated coil.The turpentine is used to make the white gas a little less volitile.

The other is a pipe near the nozzles that delivers propane.He also metions a deisel cylinder glow plug as a suitable igniter.

Harold,

there are a few people trying regular woodpellets in gasifiers and it sounds like they make gas well enough but there has been problems with moisture in the gasifier after shutdown which turns the pellets to mush and causes problems in relighting.
There are some woodgas guys that share their info openly and there are others that share a bit but omit key info,sort of like the spitefull mother inlaw that gives the recipe for her son's favourite meal to her new daughter inlaw but leaves out a crucial ingredient so it never quite works right for the new wife.
And then there are a couple with extra large egos that lob shots at each other and can't seem to realise some cooperation and glory sharing might help themselves and others.

All in all,the goal seems to be a fuel in pellet or chip form that will make auto feeding viable.
Science isn't meant to be trusted it's to be tested

Fla._Deadheader


Paul, are you saying the gasifier sweats as it cools, and that wets down the pellets ???  I thought the wood, pretty much burns up and turns to ash, after the gasifier is shut down similar to how a modern wood stove smolders. ???
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

SwampDonkey

Probably a certain amount of water no matter what you burn, whether it comes from free water or bound. As far as the pellets, it's bound water. Oven dry is only in a controlled environment, EMC would be more accurate. I'll be first to admit I don't know anything about the set up of a gasifier and how it deals with water that is burned off the fuel.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Paul_H

Harold,

The imbert style,like mine is closed and pretty well airtight with the lid closed and the moisture in the feed tank(bunker) runs down the wall and collects in the little holding tank.
When the gasifier cools down and the lid is opened,there is a lot of condensation on the lid and on the walls.The wood chunks are quite dry at this point and even have that "clink" sound when you move them around.
I just went out with the moisture meter and checked the Birch chunks left in there since November and they read 12% MC.The chunks are quite charred even though they are a couple feet above the nozzles.

I guess that is good for woodchunks but not so good for pellets?  :)
I'll hunt through some archives and see if I can find where I heard of the problems with pellets.

QuoteI thought the wood, pretty much burns up and turns to ash, after the gasifier is shut down similar to how a modern wood stove smolders

We have to take care not to completely run out of wood or the charcoal is lost.When the gasifier is shut down,the fire is extinguished and the charred wood and charcoal remains for the next light.
Sort of like keeping a sourdough sponge,I guess. ;)
Science isn't meant to be trusted it's to be tested

TexasTimbers

Ah yes a glo plug would be the cats jammas.
The oil is all in Texas, but the dipsticks are in D.C.

Paul_H

The Bees knees,too 8)


I went looking for the talk on pellets and found this over on the yahoo woodgas site,

QuoteI learned recently ( FRIENDS DONT LET FRIENDS RUN WOOD PELLETS IN
THEIR wood fueled GASIFIER HAHAHAH)
what probably happened was after you shut down,the
water
vapor that accumulates in the hopper got to the wood pellets in the
entire fuel load and turned them into a soft guey giant sloppy messy
mess,,,(( been there )),,,and when you fired back up ,,,you were
partially plugged somewhere,,,,,,,that would make a totally unbalanced
reaction area in that thing unti
l it all burned off

Looking in Vesa's book,it was more or less the same issue as well as problems presented by the pellets small size but Harold,mentioned large pellets which might work.I'm sure the pellet problems will eventually be worked out.
Some of the Finns run their cars on peat!
Science isn't meant to be trusted it's to be tested

TexasTimbers

Quote from: Paul_H on January 07, 2009, 08:20:29 PM
The Bees knees,too 8)

Man I haven't heard them in a long time.

"I started a joke, which started the whole world crying....."

:)

The oil is all in Texas, but the dipsticks are in D.C.

Fla._Deadheader


  What's the thinking behind the glow plug ???  I think I have an idea about it, but, not sure ???
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

TexasTimbers

The glo plug would be the ignition source, in lieu of cramming the lit page torn out of the Montgomery Ward catalog. ;D
The oil is all in Texas, but the dipsticks are in D.C.

Paul_H

I don't "cram" the paper,it's placed scientifically  smiley_smug01

There is a little propane torch that is usually used to light the gasifier and some use a wick on the end of a wire that is kept in a kerosene filled tube near the lighting port.
Science isn't meant to be trusted it's to be tested

Fla._Deadheader


AHhhhhhhhh. I was thinking to heat the cooler chamber, and help keep the pellets from absorbing the moisture.  ::) ::) ;D ;D
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

Ron57

  LOL hey thats pretty good!! " Scientifically placing the paper"

Paul_H

How is the gasifier coming along? :)
Science isn't meant to be trusted it's to be tested

Ron57

  Hi Paul; the gasifier is almost finished,I was looking for a leaf spring for the lid hold down couldnt find any thing junk so we went to NAPA they wanted $65 for a set of helper springs and I couldnt talk them into splitting the set up.  A neighbor called last night said they had a whole trailer axle I could have its almost to nice to part out electric brakes, hubs, axle and springs all assembled. I put a couple boxes of cant ends in the kiln for three days the MC going in was about 30% ,coming out was 10.% I am wondering if that is to dry to get best gas production any way I cut them into pcs like you discribed.
   I am building the unit in a shop but to run it I  will move it outdoors ,because of the CO dont want to take any risks.Its easy to move just pick it up with the forklift by the flanges but the refractory lining added quite a bit of weight ,almost to heavy to handle by hand. All I got from MEN was building instuctions didnt see any start up directions so I saved that gengas web page link and can still refer to your startup video. I need to put on the lid buy or produce some charcoal, hook up the flaring fan just to test run the gasifier A neighbor is working on the cyclone, I want to build a dry  filter and cooler ,less mess
                                                                                                           Ron
   

rowerwet

did anyone mention the trabant, there were some powered by a coal fire in the back that produced the gas for the engine in the front. they were east germanys answer to the volkswagon.
Husky 460, Fiskars x27, X7

shtickhead

[One of the changes made to the woodgas truck back in the Summer was the addition of a secondary fan under the hood.I went with the second fan because I wanted a more powerfull fan to draw the gas through the cooler and filter,right up to the carburator so I could eliminate the need for gasoline to start the engine.



Anybody have suggestions for a good 12 volt blower? Automobile heater blowers with the squirrel cage fans don't draw enough.



[/quote]

Just a 'shot in the dark'  could a starter motor drive a turbo, say from a diesel motor for this purpose? Maybe to much draw on the battery and starters not good for length of time needed?

Anyone who has built one of these has my respect. I'm good at scrounging materials,finishing projects....
So far I've only read the first 10 and last two pages of the tread so my questions may have been answered already but; given all materials and tools on hand,roughly how many hours would you guess it would take someone with basic metal working skills to cobble/fabricate a unit like this? Also what is the expected life of the unit/burner?

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