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Wood burning truck!

Started by ellmoe, April 28, 2005, 08:18:40 PM

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Paul_H

Welcome to the forum Chris.
How are things up at willy's puddle?I havn't been through there for a few years but I like the area.My dad once owned a bit of land at Soda Creek and we would hang out there once in awhile.

QuoteNow that youve built your system Paul what style would you build next  and what books helped you the most 

I'm still undecided which type will be my next.It'll probably be another Imbert but it'll have less air tubes and nozzles(7,maybe) and the unit itself will be a shorter by 12-18" I still plan on adding a cyclone to this unit.

You're welcome to stop by when you're down this way and you can look it over and we'll go for a ride. :)
Science isn't meant to be trusted it's to be tested

Wilfor

Paul the Puddle is doing good  in the 20 s a little rain here and there just right . Now if i could only catch up at work and enjoy it a little .. . I cant stop reading about this stuff very interesting .. I read all 17 pages here and all the great links are a treat .  Im trying to get a bit of an understanding before i start throwing some steel around . Ive started a list of questions and am tring to see how many i can answer myself as i read along .  I must asy i like this forum all the post are positive and  i'm not used to seeing that .  I have some interesting compressed wood blocks at work that id like to try in one of these .    Well i cant stare at this screen anymore so now that ive got another 20 pages printed   its off to bed ...


Chris

Paul_H

I've known for awhile that the system needed a cyclone to separate the char and ash from the gas but was dreading building a cyclone and didn't know how to go about fitting it all together and really didn't want to start hacking away with a torch and cutting wheel  so I lived with things the way they were  ;)
The MEN systen doesn't have a cyclone and I don't even think it was mentioned.I looked around online trying to locate a ready made cyclone to purchase  with no success.When Werner was in Canada,he told me how he builds them out of pipe with no need of a fancy roller.

This link here is to Bill Pentz's website showing the proper way to build a cyclone.

Bill Pentz cyclone plans

Because I didn't have a roller but have Attention Deficit disorder,I skimmed Bill's pages and combined his and Werner's together and hoped it would be okay. ::)

First up was drawing a template but because I was cutting it out of a 6" pipe,I made a half template(below) and used it to cut two pieces. The pattern is 6" to 2½" in a 14" cone with the cyclone being 22" in total length(minus dustbin and outlet pipe)





Forming the cone involved a lot of cold hammering on a little anvil and on the soft ground.Lots of hammering,fitting and tacking,etc.






From Bill Pentz's design,I used his idea to bring the 3½" inlet pipe in at a slight downward angle.Once it was welded together,I was anxious to test it before proceeding so I used some black tape to seal a jar to the bottom as a dustbin and connected up the shopvac hose to the other end with more black tape.

I gathered some typical soot,ash and charcoal that finds it's way to my cooler and tested the cyclone by turning on the shopvac and sucking up the whole mess.The shopvac ran for about 10 seconds while I threw gobs of char into the inlet of the cyclone and I watched the soot,ash and charcoal fall into the jar the same way as sand in a hourglass!! There was no visible soot or charcoal in the shopvac when I opened it up again and I was really encouraged.











The next move was fitting the cyclone between the gasifier and cooler.This shows the pipe with companion flange waiting to fit and tack the cyclone.









And a view from the top looking down to the cone.







Quote from: Norm on February 11, 2007, 10:20:34 AM
Well I was a bit horrified to see you cut holes in perfectly good cast iron frying pans but felt that if I said anything it just might tip you over the edge.  ;D

I was thinking about poor ol' Norm when it came time to build the dustbin.I didn't know what else to use and ended up with a 1 gallon stainless steel Dutch Oven(cheap) with 3 toolbox style latches added to seal and suspend the dustbin.
I tried using a 2½" holesaw to cut the hole in the lid but that didn't work well at all so the hole was drilled with a bunch of small holes around the circle and trimmed with a set of snips.






The lid was fitted to the bottom of the cyclone using a 2" close nipple with nuts on either side, fashioned out of both ends of a 2" pipe coupler.









Everything set in place and ready to go.I'll let the high temp silicone set awhile before firing up the truck.








Science isn't meant to be trusted it's to be tested

Radar67

Paul, did I see a couple of header/exhaust flanges welded in there?
"A man's time is the most valuable gift he can give another." TOM

If he can cling to his Blackberry, I can cling to my guns... Me

This will kill you, that will kill you, heck...life will kill you, but you got to live it!

"The man who can comprehend the why, can create the how." SFC J

Paul_H

They are some companion flanges that I cut out of 3/8   plate.I made a little cardboard template last year along with some others and kept them filed away for times like these.
Science isn't meant to be trusted it's to be tested

Norm

Quote from: Paul_H on August 08, 2008, 12:56:57 PM
I was thinking about poor ol' Norm

All I can tell you Paul is that if you come visit I'm checking your bags before you leave.  :D

On a serious note I'm sure impressed with your ingenuity.  :)

Paul_H

Thanks Norm,and it's true that I've been admiring the pot and frying pan in your avatar pic   ;D
Science isn't meant to be trusted it's to be tested

Reddog

I keep waiting to see the wood burner show up at the pig roast.  ;D
You weren't up for a cross country trip?  :)

Paul_H

Wally,

first I'll need you to come out here for a visit and cache some 40 lb sacks of wood chunks every 100 miles or so :D
Science isn't meant to be trusted it's to be tested

Reddog

 :D :D :D
I can get you covered all the way through MI and WI.
But there isn't much to burn though western MN, ND and eastern MT.  :-\

marc_b

hi paul you make a very good job felicitation
I interested about wood gas from a while ...
I build a smaller kit for my mf 65 and I run the tractor about 4h but I have a  lot off work to make a tar filter the tar like glue my engine valve
you have this kind of trouble
merci
marc_b

Paul_H

Welcome to the forum marc,

I haven't had any real problems with tar yet although I have seen evidence of it.I read that there is no good way to filter out tar.Are your valves stuck? What type of gasifier did you build? Is it the FEMA style or is it a similar style to what I built with the nozzles?
Science isn't meant to be trusted it's to be tested

marc_b

ok paul

my old continental g 176 in my old mf 65 (1958)
have a good rocker and push rod
I glue a 4 valve in 3 time but it is not very hard
to open a replace a push rod and unglue a
valve whit a wd40 and hammer...

my gasifier is a donw draft like a gengas like servtqh
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ayLoOnTCS8I
i build a smal burner and biger cyclone, tubing cooler
like this but i make some filter and the tar and water
pass trough in shorter time.

I make a compact kit for easy and fast intal and removal.
if you want see my kit i take some picture.

excuse my bad english i am a french quebecois...

merci

marc



Reddog

Welcome to the Forestry Forum Marc.

Thanks for posting the video.

As for your english, It is much better than my French.

Woodgas burning is and intersting idea for me and I enjoy the diffrent designs.

Wally

Paul_H

Marc,

You have better fabrication skills than me by a long ways,nice job!The problem I see is that it appears to be a FEMA style "stratified downdraft" and they have a reputation as tar makers.They were designed for emergency situations as in short term use.

Wayne Keith,from Alabama uses a modified FEMA style gasifier but I don't know how to fix the tar problem in those units.Would you consider replacing the gasifier with a Imbert style?
Radar67(Stew) is designing one right now too so we may be able to help with measurements if you go that route.

Here is a link to Johan Linnell's website where he constructs this Imbert gasifier in a weekend.He is using the gasifier on a David Brown tractor and is farming using only woodgas

Link

Paul
Science isn't meant to be trusted it's to be tested

marc_b

hi gang

this is my small gasifier unit kit
it is build to mount on the left of my old mf 65 tractor
betwen the wheel and close to left of the engine


I have a eccess of tar in my final gas .

it is work about 4 hour with a one bag of a wood stove perlet.

is under construction project.





this is a over view of my gasifier





this is a open to and easy loding



this is a cyclone and shaking handle 



this is my radiator



it is my first prototype


but I have a tar probleme in this system.
the tar pass trought the filter and go to  the engine
it is not good for the engine :)

merci




marc








marc_b

ok merci paul for the vedbil.se link
I read this a lot of time it is very interesting and very
good project builder.

you see my gasifier and my cyclone radiator but the last picture is a
box for make a saw dust filter but it is not instaled in her final place.

the filter is not fontional the tar pass throught ..

merci

marc

thecfarm

marc_b,just so others will know too.Make a "link" to your pictures by clicking on to your profile.Click on to Forum Profile Information.This will make a link so people can look at your gallery.When you post more than one picture in a post hit the enter key a couple times.This will leave some white space between your pictures.Good job on the picture postings.Welcome to the forum too.Glad you can build something like this.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

marc_b

I am in a case study about my wood gas burner

I am think it is posible to modify my down draft burner

to a down draft burner throated tar cracking

and new air inlet whitout a major midification of my condensed

desing and after this modification a use the same wood

and the same condition  for see

the difference between the two system.

i return to you paul whit my result

marc_b







Paul_H

It's been awhile since an update and there have been a few minor changes made to the truck.This update was brought on because of a few emails and a phone call from a man named Ron in Indiana,who is also building a MEN style gasifier.It's great to hear from people like Ron because it encourages me to get back to work on the truck.
His questions about hearth and nozzle sizes caused me to have to think again and do a little math and when I got stumped,I sent a IM to Farmerdoug and he checked my calculations to make sure I wasn't too far out to lunch.

One of the changes made to the woodgas truck back in the Summer was the addition of a secondary fan under the hood.I went with the second fan because I wanted a more powerfull fan to draw the gas through the cooler and filter,right up to the carburator so I could eliminate the need for gasoline to start the engine.

This fan was a combustion air blower from a furnace that had a squirrell cage in it and I mounted it to the fender well and plumbed it to the final woodgas filter housing with a length of 2" ribbed suction hose with camlock couplers and a shut off valve.













From the fan,the gas is piped out in front of the radiator and out at the driver's side of the front bumper.I get a little guarded with the gas that comes out of the pipe here because it's cooled and filtered and hard to see but it's deadly carbon monoxide and I'm told it can sneak up on a person.









The fan is powered by this cheap little $40 cdn inverter hooked up to the battery.I took the time to properly mount the inverter and wires to prevent arcs and sparks.It doesn't show in the pic here but there are proper terminals :)





The switches in the cab run the front and rear blower.






Science isn't meant to be trusted it's to be tested

Paul_H

Starting the engine using only woodgas was difficult with the squirrel cage fan because it wouldn't draw enough to make much gas.The engine would start right away but it would "run out of gas" before the engine could draw enough to keep it moving.
That is the way it is with woodgas,if you idle for a long period of time(5-10 minutes) the gasifier "produces" less gas so if I tried to put the truck into gear and take off in a hurry,the truck would be sluggish to start off with but would steadily catch up and the gas would be available for better acceleration.

I looked around for a better fan but couldn't source one online or in any supply catalogues here so the next time we were in the city,I stopped in a vacuum repair store and found a impeller that was the right size.
The fan is backward to the rotation of the fan motor(CW) but it was better.The squirrel cage was removed and the impeller was pressed on.









Although the impeller improved things,it was still took awhile to start the engine so the impeller was removed and I cut some extensions for the fins out of a clear plastic recipe book holder that I didn't think Carla really needed ;D

It was finicky cutting and attaching the fins with epoxy but it was finally done so it was put back together and tested.There was a little noise because a couple fins were sitting proud so I grabbed a bastard file and attempted to remove some material,lathe fashion while the fan spun.
There were bits of busted plastic flying everywhere and 3 fins were ripped off and spat out the blower :D
Had to make and glue up some more fins and try again.






It works much better but there is still a lot of room for improvement.A blower the style of a shopvac or leaf blower would probably work well but the little 400w inverter won't cooperate.
What the stronger fan would do is produce good gas in larger quantities in a shorter time.Right now it takes around 15-20 minutes from lighting the gasifier to starting the engine and driving.The Swedes with their WWII 6 or 12 VDC blowers are able to light and start in 5 minutes.

Anybody have suggestions for a good 12 volt blower? Automobile heater blowers with the squirrel cage fans don't draw enough.


Science isn't meant to be trusted it's to be tested

sawdust

this is a WAG. How much air does one of those emission control air pumps move?
Might work?
comforting the afflicted and afflicting the comfortable.

Paul_H

Maybe somebody here will know.It's worth looking into maybe?


Lighting the gasifier.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1TQnombaS6s
Science isn't meant to be trusted it's to be tested

Ron57

Hi Everyone  I have started building a wood gas generator the same style as Pauls, thanks for the help. There are a few differences I would like to post a few pics as soon as I figure out how. Still in the 20th century, But not to old to learn a little more I hope. Ha Ha! I need to ask my 9 year old how to do it  ;D

Paul_H

Hi Ron,

welcome to the FF,glad you made it here. :)

Have you done anymore work on the woodgas generator since we spoke a week or so back?
Here is a link to posting here on the FF.

Link


Paul
Science isn't meant to be trusted it's to be tested

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