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Market for out of control X-mas trees??

Started by WSJ, June 20, 2002, 03:27:52 PM

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WSJ

Is there any market for Christmas trees that haven't been maintained?  We've got about 12 acres of mixed conifers that's about 20 years old and obviously well past consideration as holiday trees (except for maybe the statehouse lawn or some such).

At what point do these trees have any value as pulp wood or anything else?  Is there a market for low quality trees in western PA?  There are so many tree plantations gone wild that it makes me wonder if there is.

Thanks.  -WSJ

Tom

Here is one thread along those lines that has recently been started. https://forestryforum.com/cgi-bin/board/YaBB.pl?board=Business;action=display;num=1018662258

here is another.https://forestryforum.com/cgi-bin/board/YaBB.pl?board=edu;action=display;num=1014429066;start=51

Ron sounds to be open to more questions and I'm sure someone has some good answers.  Where are they? What are the species of trees?  What density are they planted and do you want to market what is there or thin them and try to develop a market?   Just some stuff toconsideer when you ask your questions. :)

Ron Wenrich

Pulpwood values won't kick in until they are about 6", but the volume would be very limited.  The amount of work would be a lot more than your income.  

Gladfelter has a concentration yard in Hancock, MD and are always looking for pine.  There is a paper mill in Johnsonburg that is also a co-gen plant.  Allegheny Particleboard is up around St Marys.  Mallory over in Emporium used to take pulpwood and shipped by rail.  Hammermill in Erie has shut down.

One alternative would be to cut for Christmas greens.  The one Christmas tree farm I go to thin their trees out every year.  Those trees that just don't develop very well, are too big, or have some aesthetic problems are cut down and they make wreaths or just sell the greens.

The only problem is, it will take you many years to get rid of that much greens.

What are you looking to do with the land?  
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

WSJ

Tom:  Thanks, I'll check out those threads.

Ron:  We get our water for the house from a blocked-in artesian spring.  The trees were planted in old pasture upgradient of the spring's surface water watershed and (I believe) groundwater flow.  The tree plantation is definitely at the head of that particular drainage.  The spring's gone dry 2 out of the last 4 summers, which hasn't happened ever since we bought the place in 1965.  I can't help but think that the maturing trees, at the density they're planted, are having some impact, either by intercepting and transpiring percipitation and/or groundwater from the shallow aquifer.  Of course I realize we've had pretty significant doughts but I think the trees could be contributing.

The trees were planted at typical Christmas tree spacing (maybe 6'-8' apart with 10'-12' between the rows, maybe closer) and a couple hundred were harvested one year.  After that they've just grown wild.  Species (and I can't swear that this is a complete list) are blue spruce, Norway spruce, Scotch pine, balsam fir, (maybe) Douglas fir.  The spruce are quite large and, given how dense they are, have an absolutely bare understory (nothing but spruce needles).  There is some herbaceous growth in and around the pines and firs.

Their value as grouse habitat, other than winter cover, is diminishing as the understory vegetation is shaded out.  They're starting to be good red squirrel habitat (not necessarily a good thing since it's a continual battle to keep the little buggers out of the house) and great bedding/escape cover for deer (too good!).  Turkey broods use the edges and the few more open areas and would use it more if there was more herbaceous stuff at ground level, especially if remaining trees were left with some consideration of the viewshed from a turkey's point of view.  My thinking is that probably 60-70% of the trees should come out, leaving the remainder in clumps/thickets.  It'd be better wildlife habitat and I expect it might help with the water situation.

So I guess what we're looking for is a way to get trees out that doesn't cost us money or a lot of time & work.  If we can make some money, great.  If we can break even, that's OK too.

Can you tell me more about what you mean when you say they don't have any pulpwood value until they're ~6"?  Six inches at the small end of a log?  Is there a standard length that pulpwood is cut to or is it whatever length you get with a 6" minimum?  I assume an 8-10' minimum length is necessary for handling?  Is it possible or feasible for us to consider cutting, limbing, and stockpiling trees for pickup if the volume isn't enough for a commercial pulpwooder to consider doing it all?

Thanks.  -WSJ

Ron Scott

A pulpwood stick is 100 inches in length to a 4 inch top (3.5" measured inside bark at the small end.)

A tree normally needs to be 6 inches in diameter at breast height (4 1/2 feet above ground level measured at the high side of the tree). Some 5" trees may be "pushed" to make 1 pulpwood stick.

A Christmas tree plantation "gone wild" does not have much commercial value as previously stated. Many such plantations left without ongoing maintenance are a sign of a poor market period for Christmas trees. Just to many trees on the market and users going to artificial trees.

~Ron

Ron Wenrich

Some places will take 5' wood, and some will take tree length.  A lot would depend on the user specs.  Pulpwood is scaled down to 4" on the small end.  A 6" tree is the minimum size to make the specs.

The problem with small trees is the low amount of volume.  We have a pulpwood calculator in the toolbox.  Put in a few diameters and bolt heights and you'll see that there isn't much volume in those small trees.

It would take 20-30 trees to make a ton of pulp.  Delivered price is probably in the $25/ton range, so there isn't much opportunity to market those small trees.

If you're looking to cut and remove the whole 12 acres, you could bulldoze and start over.  That might be too expensive.  You could also cut and let lay.  But, you have a fire danger.  I've seen Christmas growers who will pile up needle cast victims and burn them in the spring.

If you're just looking to thin patches, you could girdle the trees.  That is where you make a ring around the tree with a chain saw.  The tree will be dead, but they will still be standing.

You could also use poison.  I don't know how well it works on conifers.  They sell a hypo-hatchet.  You just whack the tree with the hatchet, and it injects poison into the tree.  You end up with standing dead trees.  
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

C_Miller

Keystone Chipping  in Kane, Pa takes pulpwood down to 3" and 12' long.

C
CJM

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